Expand and Exterminate version 0.163 Released

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 30 Jun 2006, 17:37

Here's a thought. Instead of beefing or de-beefing the anti air, how about just making Air cheaper all around the board?

Edit:

FYI NI mexes are horribly vulnerable. They are the most vulnerable mex in the game. URC mexes cloak jam and give radar, gd's mexes are tough as nails and have a really nice cannon on them to boot. NI's mexes only have a nanolathe and cannot build anything by themselves. Plus they are pretty low health.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 30 Jun 2006, 17:56

Forboding Angel wrote:Here's a thought. Instead of beefing or de-beefing the anti air, how about just making Air cheaper all around the board?

Edit:

FYI NI mexes are horribly vulnerable. They are the most vulnerable mex in the game. URC mexes cloak jam and give radar, gd's mexes are tough as nails and have a really nice cannon on them to boot. NI's mexes only have a nanolathe and cannot build anything by themselves. Plus they are pretty low health.

Hmm - perhaps they could be scripted to regenerate when not nanolathing? Kind of a representation of them nanorepairing themselves?

Alternately, if they could build some analogue to Dragon's Teeth or mines or some other minimal defensive deterrent, they'd help.

Or maybe you're just supposed to defend them and use them to repair the defenders.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 30 Jun 2006, 18:21

Forboding Angel wrote:Here's a thought. Instead of beefing or de-beefing the anti air, how about just making Air cheaper all around the board?

Edit:

FYI NI mexes are horribly vulnerable. They are the most vulnerable mex in the game. URC mexes cloak jam and give radar, gd's mexes are tough as nails and have a really nice cannon on them to boot. NI's mexes only have a nanolathe and cannot build anything by themselves. Plus they are pretty low health.

Or we could just not change air, as it's already quite powerful, just vulnerable around anti-air. Consider their speed... Air units have the capability to attack anywhere, at any time, over any terrain. Oh, and if you use air transports, you can bring ground units along. Air scouts are cheap, if you don't scout ahead for anti-air, that is your own. dumb. fault.

Journier · Post by **Journier** » 30 Jun 2006, 18:25

Forboding Angel wrote:Here's a thought. Instead of beefing or de-beefing the anti air, how about just making Air cheaper all around the board?

the point is air is support forboding.

making them so they are spammable all over the place isnt going to make them more effective when meeting anti air turrets.

i think the price point for air is at the right spot, right now really, if you make it cheaper air may become too easily massed. especially vs people that forget anti air until the last second.

air is strong by itself with no enemy anti air around, but when you add the anti air in, it just becomes useless, theres a huge change in usefulness, it goes from very strong to near useless, with just a couple anti air.

when lvl 3 air is completely pwned by lvl 1 anti air turrets /units why bother?

i dont see lvl 1 plasma or rocket turrets completely pwning lvl 3 plasma/ rocket kbots.

edit for deci's response.

fine, you guys win.

lets not change air, . why even discuss this. Why even try to change anything in the game when everyone wants it to stay the same?

im done gg forget about my suggestions.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 30 Jun 2006, 18:30

You are correct, Journier, air becomes very weak against anti-air. But think about it, anti-air can do only one thing, and that's attack air. It is utterly useless for anything else. Now, air, on the other hand, is good against anything that is not anti-air. Not only that, but it moves faster than anything else, so a handful of air units can attack anywhere they want, including enemy mexes. Ground units take forever to move places without air transports.
Speed matters.

Edit: Actually, Journier, there's something very important being left out of this discussion. Are you talking about epic E&E or normal?

Journier · Post by **Journier** » 30 Jun 2006, 18:35

i am actually speaking of regular EE.

i havent had a chance to test epic EE yet.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 30 Jun 2006, 18:39

Ah, that explains it. In Epic E&E the air units are much faster, relatively. In normal E&E I have found air units useful, but I rarely build more than lvl1 air as it is rather weak. So, I agree with you, they are underpowered, in normal E&E.

raikitsune · Post by **raikitsune** » 30 Jun 2006, 18:58

please all this speek of epic EE and i've not seen a link or information as to if its out on not

someone help!

Journier · Post by **Journier** » 30 Jun 2006, 19:08

its on file universe

uh.. ill get youu link right now

you will need both original E&E download and then epic since epic is a mod for E&E.. pretty much.

heres the standard E&E link http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=3527

heres the E&E Epic link http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=3601

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 30 Jun 2006, 19:10

raikitsune wrote: please all this speek of epic EE and i've not seen a link or information as to if its out on not

someone help!

Fang posted it on the previous page...

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 30 Jun 2006, 19:47

Please keep your comments to normal EE in this thread. I'll ask fang to start an Epic EE thread so we can discuss them in their relative threads.

As far as normal EE goes... Hmm the thing is that you don't want air to be too powerful, nor too weak. THere is a bit of a fine line here.

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 30 Jun 2006, 20:16

I just tested Epic EE, and i have only one question for now:

Are the LOS and gun ranges the same as in normal EE?
It certainly seems that way.

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 30 Jun 2006, 20:21

It looks like weapon ranges are the same, and metal extractors work double-time now. It makes for very cool, much bigger fire-fights now

Journier · Post by **Journier** » 30 Jun 2006, 21:14

heh on the proper maps, OKI river ISNT a cool map to do it on.

needs more metal or something.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 30 Jun 2006, 22:13

Why does everyone play Oki river? No offence to forb, but its just too porcy. Once you win more islands than the enemy, or the sea, you can't lose.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 30 Jun 2006, 22:24

Drone_Fragger wrote:Why does everyone play Oki river? No offence to forb, but its just too porcy. Once you win more islands than the enemy, or the sea, you can't lose.

Not true.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 30 Jun 2006, 22:26

Drone_Fragger wrote:Why does everyone play Oki river? No offence to forb, but its just too porcy. Once you win more islands than the enemy, or the sea, you can't lose.

Did you ever notice the "REMAKE" on the end of the name? Meaning that I simply retextured it. BTW I disagree with you. t has never come down to the islands or water for me.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 30 Jun 2006, 22:43

ALRIGHT BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE...

As far as epic goes.. stop discussing that here I will make another thread for that soon for its own discussion:

As far as regular EE goes I intend to continue it and I do feel that air is underpowered.. regardless of whether in mass it is nasty or not.. it seems to go from being potent (with no anti air present) to utterly useless with even a few anti air turrets.. yes it does have utility but only a few anti air turrets seem to be able to reduce its effectiveness to a visual one at best.. this seems to apply straight up the lvls.. I have some thoughts that I will share with you:

Thought 1:

Why air seems to become devistating against a player with no anti air.. this is not exactly true what I have noticed happening is that players tend to skip lvl 1 air and go straight to lvl 2 air from lvl 1.. this is where the power vaccum shows up.. you need lvl 1 anti air in droves because you can access lvl 2 air before you can access lvl 2 anti air.. this creates the problem of a few lvl 2 aircraft showing up in a mostly lvl 1 enviroment before lvl 2 has been established.. lvl 2 air is of course deadly to lvl 1 (not quite so to lvl 2) and thus the problem occurs here.. lvl 3 also has a similiar problem.. if you disagree please say so..

This leads me to my next thought...

Thought 2:

Since lvl 2 air comes into a power vaccum lacking lvl 2 anti air lvl 1 anti air has become wtfpwn to compensate.. when the real problem is the availablility of lvl 2 air 9which I thought might be a problem a long time ago) essentially Anti air should proceed air in some fashion. So instead of mucking around with costs and lack of costs.. I shall instead take a more interesting approach of removing the lvl 2 air fromt he lvl 1 buildmenu and the lvl 3 air from the lvl 2 buildmenu.. this will in effect force you to go lvl 2 before having access to lvl 2 air meaning lvl 2 anti air is more likely to be a viable option to build.. thusly I can reduce the dmg of lvl 1 anti air slightly to allow lvl 1 air to be used in some capacity..

I also however have a third thought

Thought 3:

URC has a interesting flip flop as does GD from lvl 1 to lvl 2 air.. at lvl 1 in GD mini guns are used to attack ground, and in URC plasma, yet at lvl 2 this is reversed and these weapons are used to attack air. At the time this seemed to make sense I see however now that this may have been a bad Idea.. it seems that lvl 1 anti air aircraft are far more effective than their lvl 2/3 counterparts and I think that this is due to a weapon problem.. I should never have made plasma and mini gun the weapon of choice of lvl 2/3 anti air aircraft... So Intend to remedy this.. I will change both these units to utillize a missile weapon which will alleviate the tracking/accuracy problems these units suffer from.. I shall also contemplate switching their groundattack counterparts to use miniguns/plasma, however they may stay the same..

last but not least one more thought...

Thought 4:

I would like to add possibly 2 units to the game that I think might fill neccessary gaps in strategy, 1. a lvl 1 URC stealth (possibly cloaked) attack unit, and 2. a lvl 3 GD interceptor aircraft (not a helicopter).. What do you think also I will definately add in some sort of stealth factory to build only lvl 2 stealth units and such and address them as well..

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 30 Jun 2006, 22:55

Fanger wrote:The most sensible thing in the last 2-4 pages in this thread

i whole heartily agree with everything u said. In particular the whole availability thing harkens back to the days when URC ground and air were in the same fac

! frightening isn't it?

A stealth attack unit at lvl 1 brilliant. it'll help to differentiate the play styles a bit more at lvl 1.

The Question: GD lvl 3 interceptor?
The Answer: Yes!!!

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 30 Jun 2006, 23:30

Sounds good.

j5mello wrote:it'll help to differentiate the play styles a bit more at lvl 1.

I think GD needs something more than the head-on approach and airdrops.

Yeah, their artillery is quite nice, but it's not that great compared to stealth units (which are under-used anyway...)

Spring RTS Engine

Expand and Exterminate version 0.163 Released