Mass Promotion Plan

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 27 Apr 2007, 18:45

that subforum is viewable to the public.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 27 Apr 2007, 21:04

Thanks, Smoth.

Post by **jcnossen** » 28 Apr 2007, 00:46

I'm seriously worried about the difficulty in downloading maps and mods. I can understand Iamacup's issues relating to an integrated downloader in the lobby, but this must be resolved somehow.
I myself, favour the p2p option, despite the issues with asynchronous download, particularly if players were seeding maps on BT by default. for most of us, upload bandwidth is free and having Idle BT would be fine by me.

I'm working on a solution for that, with cup's support btw.

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 28 Apr 2007, 14:37

There must be something to give Cup atleast a little AdAttention and stop - OMG DL Everything Actions - thats what really stops Integrated Dls from existing - Me agrees we jcnossen that we need cuppys support for this...

SO first step convince Cupy... MassivBeggingEmailFlood for theWorx

PS: I like this Masspromotion Threads - they alway derail, sum up what workx is left do do and that way show the real state of Spring

AF · Post by AF » 28 Apr 2007, 16:59

I also have a setup ready and have agreed a solution to advertising with iamacup.

Both package managers lack any backends though to pull data from, and we have a very busy iamacup.

ThanatosNL · Post by **ThanatosNL** » 28 Apr 2007, 23:07

My first post on this forum! :)

After reading this topic I think that some of you are overreacting a bit when it comes to new players.
I am just a casual gamer, and I have never downloaded any extra content for a game. So naturally I am unfamiliar with unpacking files and putting them into the right folder for it to work. But even I managed to get some additional maps, a mod and two AI's installed and working properly in just one day.

Of course this is sort of a double edged sword. Im sure many people here prefer the way it is. If you know how spring works the current system is very functional... but a poor n00b to
1. find out about unknown files

Took me about ten minutes. It really isn't that hard to find, considering that almost all files that are mentioned on the forum are linked to UF.

2. navigate UF

First of all, it isn't hard to navigate UF. At least not harder than any other site that I know of.
And besides, most new players won't go to UF and blindly download some random files. They'll download the ones that they heard or read of, which is where the search function is for. Or even directly follow a link.

3. download the right files

Explained above. The only thing that could be a problem for some people is to find the latest versions. But there is a box that says if it's the latest version or not, and if it isn't, there is even a link to the latest version.

4. unzip them in the right folders

Most files that you download from UF come with an instalation guide of some sort. Either in the file explanation on UF or in a readme.

The only problem I had was when I downloaded my first AI. But it only took 15 minutes of reading the forum to figure out that I needed to put one file in Bot-libs.

5. not give up when things seemingly randomly starts craching when he's trying something new

I think that 90% of the people come here with the intention to either play a new version of TA, or play a game that was recommended by a friend (be it TA based or one of the other mods/games).

The first group would probably try their best to get things to work properly, as it's their passion for TA that drives (I'm one of these).

The second group are the ones that will give up if things get too complicated for them. But since they have friends that already play, they have easy acces to some help.

The last 10% are the people that come here via other forums and want to check Spring out. Of this group, the ones that can't read basic instrutions, are too dumb too understand said instructions and the ones that just don't like Spring, are the ones that will give up/leave. But I don't think that most of you feel the need to interact with such people.

well u get it...

For example, I tried to get NTAI working today myself (not fiddeled around with ai:s to this point), and was unsuccesful. The first thing n00bs would want to do is play easy games vs the ai not multiplayer... Of course he could startup XTA with the included KAI or AAI right away, but then he has to figure out to start a multiplayer game (VERY scary for a n00b) then figure out how to add bots... (there is a good wiki page I think, but only 1/10 noobs will find that).

SpringSP! I never even had to try starting a singleplayer via the lobby. While downloading Spring, just look a few lines down and you'll see a nice box that says "SpringSP: You can use SpringSP to easily start single player games against AIs".
The only thing that would make it even easier, is if it was included in the main package.

And about the Wiki, I don't think it's that good, alot of areas are either very vague or incomplete. Although I can imagine that the Wiki isn't a priority for most peopel, it's definately something tha could use some work.

Relative · Post by **Relative** » 28 Apr 2007, 23:33

@ThanatosNL

Well I can see you managed to pick up how to get everything running without any problems, but that isn't everyone's case. Just idle in the lobby for a few minutes and you get questions about these "basic" things. They either don't know about UF (not everyone bothers to join the forums if they are only just trying out the game), don't know what to do with the files, try unpacking the maps from sdz/7, or get sick of spring crashing even if the issue can be easily fixed.

Its not to say that these are spring only problems. Even commercial software has issues with "user friendliness". The underlining problem with this has to do with the nature of spring. Spring is free, open-source, and easy to access with a sub-30 MB file size with the regular installer. In this case this is not a positive trait as the user has not needed to invest into the game. Thus, the drive to get the software running will not be as great than if you just paid $50 for supcom. You have likely come across this in your own experiences. You buy a relatively expensive or exclusive product, but it doesn't work out of the box. You then invest hours and possibly over a period of a few days to get it to work whether you succeed or not.

Without the drive to repay your investment you give up and move onto more rewarding tasks. Therefore, to make spring go more mainstream it is important that things are as user friendly as possible.

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 02 May 2007, 07:06

Relative wrote:@ThanatosNL

Well I can see you managed to pick up how to get everything running without any problems, but that isn't everyone's case. Just idle in the lobby for a few minutes and you get questions about these "basic" things. They either don't know about UF (not everyone bothers to join the forums if they are only just trying out the game), don't know what to do with the files, try unpacking the maps from sdz/7, or get sick of spring crashing even if the issue can be easily fixed.

Its not to say that these are spring only problems. Even commercial software has issues with "user friendliness". The underlining problem with this has to do with the nature of spring. Spring is free, open-source, and easy to access with a sub-30 MB file size with the regular installer. In this case this is not a positive trait as the user has not needed to invest into the game. Thus, the drive to get the software running will not be as great than if you just paid $50 for supcom. You have likely come across this in your own experiences. You buy a relatively expensive or exclusive product, but it doesn't work out of the box. You then invest hours and possibly over a period of a few days to get it to work whether you succeed or not.

Without the drive to repay your investment you give up and move onto more rewarding tasks. Therefore, to make spring go more mainstream it is important that things are as user friendly as possible.

everyone pls read this if you skipped over it.

spring is not accessible to new players. new players trying out the game for the first time rarely come back due to frustration - i've seen it happen over and over and over.

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 02 May 2007, 09:06

Relative wrote:@ThanatosNL

Well I can see you managed to pick up how to get everything running without any problems, but that isn't everyone's case. Just idle in the lobby for a few minutes and you get questions about these "basic" things. They either don't know about UF (not everyone bothers to join the forums if they are only just trying out the game), don't know what to do with the files, try unpacking the maps from sdz/7, or get sick of spring crashing even if the issue can be easily fixed.

Its not to say that these are spring only problems. Even commercial software has issues with "user friendliness". The underlining problem with this has to do with the nature of spring. Spring is free, open-source, and easy to access with a sub-30 MB file size with the regular installer. In this case this is not a positive trait as the user has not needed to invest into the game. Thus, the drive to get the software running will not be as great than if you just paid $50 for supcom. You have likely come across this in your own experiences. You buy a relatively expensive or exclusive product, but it doesn't work out of the box. You then invest hours and possibly over a period of a few days to get it to work whether you succeed or not.

Without the drive to repay your investment you give up and move onto more rewarding tasks. Therefore, to make spring go more mainstream it is important that things are as user friendly as possible.

Pretty much. I answer a lot of questions in the lobby every day from people who have no idea what to do and aren't really very good with computers. Others will enter the lobby for 2 minutes say "hey how do i get this working?" then leave and never come back. We have a channel and thread which answers basic questions and we still get a lot of the first two. We also get a lot of people who play one game which crashes or desyncs and then never come back.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 02 May 2007, 10:08

Who here's ever had a game desync? I can't be the only one thats had the misfortune of never experianceing a desync surly? Come to that, springs only crashed twice, due to me messing with my overclock.

I think whats needed is maybe an explanation of several things in teh installer, so once it's installed it tells you a few important facts like "Go to UF for maps, mods, ect...". Also, cant installers add internet shoutcuts to your favorits? Or even better can't teh installer open Unknowen Files, with a message to add it to the favorits as its important?

aGorm

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 02 May 2007, 10:47

I find that 1v1s and 2v2s rarely desync. However the larger games have like 30% risk of desyncing eventually

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 02 May 2007, 11:59

I find EE has about a 90% risk of desynch, if the game goes on long enough.

Then there's the dreaded countdown because someone hasn't/can't configure their firewall.

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 02 May 2007, 12:36

aGorm wrote:Who here's ever had a game desync? I can't be the only one thats had the misfortune of never experianceing a desync surly?

you must not play much, or not play in very large games

the larger the game and the longer it runs the higher the risk

tooleh · Post by **tooleh** » 02 May 2007, 13:09

The best way to promote TA would be a story like "the big scam" in eve - seriously half their playerbase plays due to that story.

It would make TA sound exciting, heartbreaking, challenging but beatable if you put your all into it, real dramatic and human.

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 02 May 2007, 19:38

except we are trying to promote Spring not TA. TA doesn't need promotion. Besides there isn't a whole lot of emotion considering one side is robots/ai/whatever.. and the other is clones.

I fully agree that entry into Spring is a bumpy ride even for non-casual (?) gamer due to a lack of clear and readily available directions for starting off...

The wiki is nice but info is too spread out or too great for a beginner to truly utilize it as a tut. Nor are ingame tuts viable since we have so many different kinds of mods and maps.

Whats needed is a fully done up intro that walks you through everything up to and including hosting and launching a game. From there its up to mod makes to guide their players in the ways of their mod*. The intro should preferably have pics to help guide a person thru setup of everything from the basic installer to maps, mods, ai, lua widgets, etc.

*However some inital info such as how the metal map system work seeing as 90% of mods use it in some form or another and it isn't exactly a simple thing would/could be helpful.

cong06 · Post by **cong06** » 03 May 2007, 00:26

tombom wrote: Pretty much. I answer a lot of questions in the lobby every day from people who have no idea what to do and aren't really very good with computers. Others will enter the lobby for 2 minutes say "hey how do i get this working?" then leave and never come back. We have a channel and thread which answers basic questions and we still get a lot of the first two. We also get a lot of people who play one game which crashes or desyncs and then never come back.

On a slightly off topic note, is it possible to have a chat room specifically for users with questions?
That way there's not the nuisance of people asking about joining games, etc. in the middle of a question.

I guess the problem would be that people wouldn't know how to join it...but having it so that you automatically join wouldn't be too bad, it could be built into spring.

Just an idea.

AF · Post by AF » 03 May 2007, 00:55

Or we could have a tab in the lobby labelled help that has a nice website explaining everything in noob terms, followed up with a healthy dose of common sense injected into a UI that doesnt look like a 1980s terminal program.

If people are willing to man #help then I'd be glad to add that to autojoin too.

el_matarife · Post by **el_matarife** » 03 May 2007, 01:15

I think we should include an HTML readme and FAQ with the Spring installer that pops up when its finished. It should also be accessible from the Start Menu and the Client's top bar or something. What it needs to include is how and where to get maps and mods, how to start Spring in single player mode and some AI skirmishing stuff, basic lobby commands, and a basic list of in game hot keys / how to use the mouse type of stuff. The length should be no more than 3 pages, so its easily readable and even the short attention span people will glance over it. This would give new players all the critical info they need to get into their first game of Spring, where they can then get help to start learning about more advanced stuff.

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 03 May 2007, 01:22

If #help was an auto-joined channel like #main (so as default from the main lobby) it would probably work a lot better. Of course you'd then have the problem of banning spammers but you'd get a lot more use from it.

edit:

Point of fact. I've never used irc, consider myself fairly competent with computers, never had any problems downloading and and installing spring and files for it, yet only found out how to access other channels after ~6 months of playing.

KingRaptor · Post by **KingRaptor** » 03 May 2007, 08:26

I've been working on a simple quickstart guide for Spring that explains the essential controls, how to start playing both SP and MP, and a basic overview of how to play. It comes with lots of pretty pictures, too. I'll probably upload the first revision by the end of the week.

Spring RTS Engine

Mass Promotion Plan