What's your position on marijuana?

[KDR_11k]

SO all smokers, alkies and people that do drugs should instantly drop dead?

No but they should be excluded from any insurance or other medical financial aid for damage arising from or being contributed to by the use of these substances.

By extension of that rational, so should rock-climbers, rugby players, sky divers, people who dont drive volvos.....

Very wooly definition of self harm, and i think, on reflection, any legislation along these lines could be the start of a "slippery slope" into a nanny-state

I don't think there are enough of any of those to make a significant dent into the insurance fees whereas there are millions of smokers and those that end up having problems generate quite large bills since cancer and such aren't as easy to deal with as a broken bone.

[rattle]

More people die in car accidents than from smoking... also, what about cancer due to passive smoking? How'd you explain that to your insurance company?

I'm all for increased fees instead...

[1v0ry_k1ng]

if weed was legal but was taxed and overpriced extortionaly...

[hunterw]

Smoking pure cannabis is more harmful to lungs than tobacco, a health charity is warning.

A study by the British Lung Foundation found that just three cannabis joints a day cause the same damage as 20 cigarettes.


It is vital that people are fully aware of the dangers so they can make an educated decision and know the damage they may be causing

Dr Mark Britton
And when cannabis and tobacco are smoked together, the effects are dramatically worse.

Evidence shows that tar from cannabis cigarettes contains 50% more cancer causing carcinogens than tobacco.

Dr Mark Britton, chairman of the British Lung Foundation, said: "These statistics will come as a surprise to many people, especially those who choose to smoke cannabis rather than tobacco in the belief it is safer for them.

"It is vital that people are fully aware of the dangers so they can make an educated decision and know the damage they may be causing."

BBCi Science - Hot Topics
Click here for more about cannabis

Dr Britton emphasised that the British Lung Foundation report - called A Smoking Gun? - was "not about the moral rights and wrongs of cannabis".

But, he said, they simply wanted to make surelablablalbalblabllablablh

yeah i wonder why all these government-funded research studies have never tested one of these

oh wait it's fucking obvious

[Zoombie]

...they deserve to die.

SO all smokers, alkies and people that do drugs should instantly drop dead? Wow, enjoy the Fascist government that would ensue. Seriously, for you to actually think like that, something is seriously wrong with you.

Meh, done with this thread before it turns into a flamewar.

You guys are all acting as if I said "Smokers should be shot on sight"

Er...no. I meat if they die from smoking, drugs and so on, then they deserve it. It's not the 1900's anymore, people know what drugs and ciggarrets and alchol do to people. If you ignore that and you die, then it's YOUR fault. Not the ciggarets, not the alchol, and not the drugs.

[Peet]

I don't really have any experience with this sort of thing, except for the fact that it's RLY RLY hard to get fellow xta devs to do anything when they're toked up

[Neuralize]

Haha, Hunterw, is that a mega vaporizer? Jesus.

Every time I get stoned I never want to do again, I feel so incapacitated under it's influence.

Of course, always a few months later, for whatever reason, I'll get stoned again anyway.

[smoth]

I had pothead friends.. lets see mild hallucinations... yep... impaired control... yep....

why is this not as bad or better then cigis? I am sorry but cigis never cause hallucinations... and if they did... where are you getting those!?!?

[KDR_11k]

More people die in car accidents than from smoking... also, what about cancer due to passive smoking? How'd you explain that to your insurance company?

I'm all for increased fees instead...

The people who are at risk by cars are almost the entire population so that's one of the standard risks, additionally cars are a necessity of modern life and a large part of the population has a car not just because it's fun to drive while cigarettes have no purpose beyond giving the addicts their fix and lining the pockets of some people. Passive smoking isn't going to do much considering how much of the crap smokers can inhale before any damage occurs and how much of that actully reaches a passive smoker. Either way I'm against letting people smoke in public because that stinks like mad.

[Forboding Angel]

heh

The non smokers here seem to think that cig smokers get a high every time they light up. Heh, hardly. If that were the case there would be no need for weed. Unless I haven't had one for over 16 hours I feel no effects from it. If over 16 hours, ya get a bit of a loopy feeling that last all of about 60 seconds or less, personally I hate that feeling.

Banning one freedom, leads to another freedom being taken away, and things tend to snowball. Generally after people ban cigs in a place they move over to trying to ban trans fat from foods. It's not mcdonalds fault you're a fat ass, you're the one that kept going there because you were too lazy to cook.

[smoth]

I generaly hate the smell of smoking and like it when they give smokers their own area to smoke in. I personaly hated traveling to class and having to reek of cigarettes after walking through this one area.

Smoking is unhealthy and someone elses choice should not effect me. However, I respect their right to an unhealthy lifestyle as it is in their pursuit of happyness and see no reason why they cannot be give special areas. Hell, one of the most asinine things is no smoking in bars... you are imbibing alcohol.

I can understand fire hazzard and all but just make a fucking smoking section and give them ventalation. Hell I say let the roof be the smokers section... that way they are in the open air not bothering anyone and they get the added bonus of the night sky. That would be nice then all bars would have to offer some nice rooftop views :). then again drunk people + heights = busted ass people who fall off the bar... then again none of the drunken freaks on bourbon street fall off their balconies!

[Forboding Angel]

ya know, there are plenty of things that non smokers do that affect me in some way of another that I don't care for. Maybe we shoudl pick a random person (Preferably an illegal alien mexican and let them decide what is to be banned.

Besides, smoking is not going away any time soon, and everyone has to at some length put up with someone else's shit. Involving government in it is the wrong answer. Taking away one personal freedom opens the door for others to be taken away as well.

I respect your rights, you respect mine. Thats the way this country is supposed to work...

Besides, have you ever driven through an area of town or country that had a bad smell you didn't like? I personally don't like driving through iowa and smelling cow shit for 30 miles, but I don't support a ban of ranches. Are you really so petty as to let one or two whiffs of an unpleasant odor ruin your day? If so, you need a lesson in tolerance.

I get sick of going downtown and having people beg me for money, but as long as they don't violate a law or my constitutional rights, I don't see how they are causing a problem.

Ya know what, it makes me ill to watch you eat that red meat, perhaps I should lobby to have it regulated made illegal in all public restaraunts (just an example, I love meat personally).

Wait. Won't we all be dead in 10 or 20 years from global warming anyways?

Anyways, do you really think I want those 10 years that smoking takes from me?

I mean really, loss of bladder control, erectile issues, everyone you've known and love is mostly dead, can't drive or see...

f that.

I don't want those last 10 years, the cigs can have them.

[smoth]

I do not understand your points though forb, redmeat is needed for nutrition, it is industry. This coming from someone who's family has worked at Exxon chemical for 3 generations and they are still working there... it is one of the worlds largest refineries. HUGE health risk. However, people need gas and we are the unlucky S.O.B.s who got the refinery then again... it was a way to put food on the table.. that refinery came with some benifits...

Anyway. People say arguements like the redmeat thing and it is a HUGE over exageration. That is something you CHOOSE to look at. For example the place I was talking about is the main corridor to the CS building. There would often be anywhere between 5-30(class lets out) smokers in one large cluster there. But since it is technically outside they would smoke there. Not one or two puffs of smoke. My dad is a smoker and yeah smoking will kill you. He is going to die from it but I will not lose one SECOND of my life because someone else has a habit/addiction/whatever.

The only way to get around them is to go up a flight of stairs that is on the other side of the building. Not something I can just look away from. However, I did go around them frequently, it is my health and I made a little extra effort. This semester they now started enforcing the smoking zones(which are in more open areas btw) and I can walk around the smokers without having to go way out of my way. I am not sure what is going on in your state but if supplying benches with ashtrays in a nice area is rights violation I want some lan-party use labs so I do not get in the way !



Anyway, I support the anti-transfat etc. I think the goverment should start putting a bit more control on nutrition. It needs to force companies to look at what they put in their fucking food so we can all live healthier happier lives.

[smoth]

I do not understand your points though forb, redmeat is needed for nutrition, it is industry. This coming from someone who's family has worked at Exxon chemical for 3 generations and they are still working there... it is one of the worlds largest refineries. HUGE health risk. However, people need gas and we are the unlucky S.O.B.s who got the refinery then again... it was a way to put food on the table.. that refinery came with some benifits...

Anyway. People say arguements like the redmeat thing and it is a HUGE over exageration. That is something you CHOOSE to look at. For example the place I was talking about is the main corridor to the CS building. There would often be anywhere between 5-30(class lets out) smokers in one large cluster there. But since it is technically outside they would smoke there. Not one or two puffs of smoke. My dad is a smoker and yeah smoking will kill you. He is going to die from it but I will not lose one SECOND of my life because someone else has a habit/addiction/whatever.

The only way to get around them is to go up a flight of stairs that is on the other side of the building. Not something I can just look away from. However, I did go around them frequently, it is my health and I made a little extra effort. This semester they now started enforcing the smoking zones(which are in more open areas btw) and I can walk around the smokers without having to go way out of my way. I am not sure what is going on in your state but if supplying benches with ashtrays in a nice area is rights violation I want some lan-party use labs so I do not get in the way !



Anyway, I support the anti-transfat etc. I think the goverment should start putting a bit more control on nutrition. It needs to force companies to look at what they put in their fucking food so we can all live healthier happier lives.

[KDR_11k]

heh

The non smokers here seem to think that cig smokers get a high every time they light up.

No, the nicotin does act like a happyness hormone though and because your body loves happyness (after all it's what's used to imbue basic instincts into your brain) it doesn't like to go without those for long. If you get cravings to continue that's because you're conditioned to like cigarettes because of the way they interact with your body chemistry. Of course noone wants to stop once conditioned, you don't want to rob yourself of the pleasure and it's completely natural that the idea of going without it is less pleasurable than the idea of possibly suffering some ill effects that seems totally distant to you.

Still, unlike e.g. cow manure, cigarettes serve no productive purpose beyond entertainment for the user. Cars transport, cow shit fertilizes (and of course is necessary for the cow's metabolism) but cigarettes?

I do think that regulation on anything that interacts with your body chemistry is necessary. Food needs to be regulated since bad ingredients can cause a lot of damage and you almost need to have a Ph. D to know which substances do what. Since I don't think it works to just print a number of (deliberately) confusing words on a list and expect the customer to know what's poisonous (never mind that you don't even get to see the full list with most restaurants) and there's really no reason to permit the sale of unhealthy material for indigestion I do think that the government has to make sure that no unnecessarily harmful substances end up in our food. Trans-fats are just one out of a long list, unfortunately government corruption will prevent some substances (like e.g. Aspartame) from being properly regulated.

[Kixxe]

can we get back on the weed please?

[10053r]

The real difference between weed and alcohol or weed and cigarettes is the length of time in which it colors a person's thinking.

Alcohol changes the way you think for a few hours.
Cigarettes change the way you think for a few minutes.
Pot changes the way you think for a few weeks.

Think about it. Ever noticed how you can tell whether a person smokes pot (even if they are not high at the moment) by simply looking at their eyes? (I've noticed that some ADD drugs have the same effect, but I digress.) There is a certain stare that every person who smokes pot on a regular basis has.

It is true that pot does not lead to violence and car accidents, the way alcohol does.
It is true that pot does not typically lead to lung cancer (simply because of the much smaller volume smoked), the way cigarettes do.
It is true, however, that pot has mind altering effects for long after the short time that one is baked.

This is the crux of the matter. I won't hire someone who smokes pot regularly to code for me, because they won't be as good as someone who does not smoke pot (unless they were really freaking brilliant to begin with).

I don't think we need to lock pot-smokers away, especially when you consider I'd guess that over 50% of the population in the first world has tried it. But pot and other "drugs" are fundamentally different than alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine, and that fact should not be lost in the debate.

And if you don't believe me, ask a moderately introspective person who you know and trust who used to smoke pot at least once a week and has not smoked in at least a year if they noticed a difference.

[j5mello]

Hmm... this is like 12th grade debate class all over again... anyway. Smoth's point about the Smoker swarms that show up is similar to what i have. In Massachusettes (the state in which i live) smoking is banned indoors in public places (i.e. anywhere your generic family of four might go, resturants, hotels, arcades, bowling alleys, etc). This leads to the smoker groups that hunker outside (esp in winter/bad weather) near the doorways/awnings trying to keep dry but still smoke. It is a pain to walk thru but i deal with it since i would rather have it outside than in.

As to weed... meh overall i could care less about it, cigs and alcohol, since i do nor have ever done any of them. It true that i pay for other peoples life choices here in the US but thats how it goes either everyone is equal and gets health care or we start doing selective health care (which HMOs already do to a certain extent) and then having bad family health history could be grounds for no care.
All in All maybe in 20-30 years when the current teenagers and 20 year olds are the majority of the members legislative bodies, it will get legalized but im sure by then something else will take its place...

In reality the only useful sentence in this entire thread is:

is two fries short of a happy meal

[Neddie]

Your understanding of human dietary needs Smoth, is not as well developed as your ability to program. By that, I mean to say, that you don't have a leg to stand on, but I don't mean to offend you.

[hunterw]

heh

The non smokers here seem to think that cig smokers get a high every time they light up. Heh, hardly. If that were the case there would be no need for weed. Unless I haven't had one for over 16 hours I feel no effects from it. If over 16 hours, ya get a bit of a loopy feeling that last all of about 60 seconds or less, personally I hate that feeling.

The same goes for people who think two drinks makes anyone drunk, or that a bowl makes anyone high. People build up tolerance to any psychoactive substance.

I smoke tobacco maybe four times in a year. Any time that I do I am completely incapacitated for 5 - 10 minutes because I have basically no tolerance to it.

Banning one freedom, leads to another freedom being taken away, and things tend to snowball. Generally after people ban cigs in a place they move over to trying to ban trans fat from foods. It's not mcdonalds fault you're a fat ass, you're the one that kept going there because you were too lazy to cook.

I agree for the most part, but I think you are confused as to what trans fatty acids are. While I don't think that they should necessarily be banned from use, I do think restaurants should be forced to clearly label every dish they serve that contains trans fats. Trans fats have absolutely no nutritional value and are linked to coronary heart disease.

I also feel that tobacco companies should be obligated to list all of the hundreds of additives they put in their cigarettes on their cartons.