QAI! V2.45! New (03/09/2007) - Page 3

QAI! V2.45! New (03/09/2007)

Here is where ideas can be collected for the skirmish AI in development

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Engine Of Darkness
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006, 21:36

Post by Engine Of Darkness »

1 Bug (happening with LLTA)

To many Unit Categorys(see screenshot):
Image


Still the COmmander stops building after some time, even if resources are available. See Screenshot:
Image


Defense Is a Little bit senseless on Supreme Battlefield (taking the small pathway would be more intelligent, maybe create some kind of waypoint files to guess where most land armys may come from?)
See Screenshot:
Image

They don't attack a single time after 30 minutes even though they have enough units. See Screenshot:
Image


Also all this bugs may be related to the "To many Unit Categorys" bug, because it also refuses to build other factorys ^^.
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

Interesting, I'll take a look into these
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

Couple of quick notes:
Engine Of Darkness wrote:1 Bug (happening with LLTA)

Still the COmmander stops building after some time, even if resources are available. See Screenshot:
Image
This could be when the AI is in the INTEL stage, searching out enemies, and not really building much. Usually only takes about 10-30 seconds, I'll investigate.
Engine Of Darkness wrote: Defense Is a Little bit senseless on Supreme Battlefield (taking the small pathway would be more intelligent, maybe create some kind of waypoint files to guess where most land armys may come from?)
See Screenshot:
Image
It gets better by the second or third go on a new map.

-QMan
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

Found some more bugs dealing with non-square maps, will fix this soon.
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

Engine Of Darkness wrote:1 Bug (happening with LLTA)

To many Unit Categorys(see screenshot):
Image
This is a Spring message, not one one my AI messages. Not really sure what it means. Shouldn't affect my AI though, as it doesn't use the Spring generated unit categories.
Last edited by QMan on 15 Feb 2007, 02:13, edited 1 time in total.
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

New version up, fixes some blockmap problems.
Engine Of Darkness
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Post by Engine Of Darkness »

I'll test more tomorrow, I'M pretty tired right now *yawns*
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yuritch
Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by yuritch »

QMan wrote:This is a Spring message, not one one my AI messages. Not really sure what it means. Shouldn't affect my AI though, as it doesn't use the Spring generated unit categories.
Those categories are used by OnlyTargetCategory, BadTargetCategory and NoChaseCatagory FBI tags. Problems there can mess up unit target selection, but shouldn't have anything to do with AI. That is a mod problem, though, as the number of categories in Spring is limited to 32 and they seem to have more.
Engine Of Darkness
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Post by Engine Of Darkness »

Also the AI shoots where Nothing is. later ingame they stood around this metal spot and as soon as the enemys arrived they shot there and hit themselfes (so they killed themselfes)
Image

Still they don't search for enemy's, however they roamd around after the enemys shot down some of their buildings.

Also the comm stops to build sometimes and they Never build anything other than a kbot lab.

However I'll test them In XTA 8.1 now, to check if it is a mod related problem
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Snipawolf
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Post by Snipawolf »

Damnit, QMan, change your avatar, when I see it I can't stop staring!!!


Arghhh!

Best of luck to your AI though
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

Snipawolf wrote:Damnit, QMan, change your avatar, when I see it I can't stop staring!!!

Arghhh!
;)
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

Engine Of Darkness wrote:Also the AI shoots where Nothing is. later ingame they stood around this metal spot and as soon as the enemys arrived they shot there and hit themselfes (so they killed themselfes)
Image

Still they don't search for enemy's, however they roamd around after the enemys shot down some of their buildings.
Yeah, I've been working on this since last night. It basically stems from the building being destroyed when not in line of sight, and the AI not removing the target from the target list. As far as I can tell, Spring's AI interface doesn't differentiate non-los enemies from dead ones.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:Also the comm stops to build sometimes and they Never build anything other than a kbot lab.
This is a LLTA problem. I had the same issue when playing myself.
Engine Of Darkness
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Post by Engine Of Darkness »

Yup I've figured it is an LLTA problem too, the only ai which runs with it is RAI right now.

However the "Water army" bug is still persistent when you use XTA8.1.
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

2.2 is up! Nanotowers are back online!
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AF
AI Developer
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Post by AF »

how exactlydid you get nanotowers back out of curiosity?
Engine Of Darkness
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Post by Engine Of Darkness »

Well they Still Shoot at death Buildings and Also they Build a torpedo launcher into the shipyard:
Image

Image

Also the AI needs more Spacing, it happens that the AI builds at the borders and the units never leave the factory:

Image

Also they builder vehicles stop to build after about an hour, even if there's still room and need for more resources / bigger armys.

I also noted that somtimes when a mex is destroyed they never build a new one (happens only later ingame, when the builders already stopped building).

I also noted they didn't upgraded the mexes a second time (in LLTA you can, the upgrader ai also works with it).

They also build now in LLTA and searching enemys is working most of the time, but sometimes the units are like "i want into the base of the enemy". Well there's nothing wrong with it until you have the scenario in the second pic, an army of enemy units next to your base.

Do I guess right if I say that nanotowers are not able to build something (LLTA has a tech4 nanotower which does this)?.

And things I found very good are "reclaiming of enemy units", I really had to laugh when I saw this.

However I'll test XTA 8.1, too. So we see how the AI behaves in other mods, too

edit::
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've noticed the following things after playing an hour with XTA:

- The mexes should be build first, then energy or a factory

- defense should be allowed as soon as the AI has build atleast one factory

- units stop building for some reason, and don't start again (see pic)
Image

- when an enemy unit passes the commander, he shoots at it. When the commander was helping to build, the looks at the "to be build" building but doesn't start to help

- way to expansion happy if there's still enough room in the "Backyard"

- transportation units are senseless for ai right now, turn them off (or try to turn them off if they have no weapons) see this pic why!:
Image

- AI doesn't make use of all available Units (noticable in LLTA)

- Units get stuck in Factors sometimes (see pic, maybe a problem of spacing?!)
Image

- totally refuses to build any shipyards now.

- Ai Needs to think more tactical (If their enemy builds an krogoth, they sometimes just drive by to kill some lonely, weak unit. the AI should try to destroy mass- destruction weapons as fast as possible.

- sometimes when buildings get destroyed the AI which buildings where destroyed is staying on one spot, doing nothing. (both units which fight and units which build)

- the Com moved to the upper left corner (in the water) for unknown reasons(while his base got destroyed to hide there? (what an ass ;) ))

- The "shooting at nothing" bug also appears in XTA.


So It seems like mods don't really make a huge difference.
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

AF wrote:how exactlydid you get nanotowers back out of curiosity?
I just made a check to see if any nanotowers are underneath the current selected build spot by looking at the footprint coverages and checking for no overlap.
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QMan
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Post by QMan »

Engine Of Darkness wrote:Well they Still Shoot at death Buildings and Also they Build a torpedo launcher into the shipyard:
Image

Image
Haha, nice pics. I found another related bug last night after uploading 2.21, but I'll continue to work on this.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:Also the AI needs more Spacing, it happens that the AI builds at the borders and the units never leave the factory:

Image
I noticed this too. I need to have it turn the building away from the edge of the map so units can exit properly.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:Also they builder vehicles stop to build after about an hour, even if there's still room and need for more resources / bigger armys.
Endgame AI needs a lot of tweaking still. :(
Engine Of Darkness wrote:I also noted that somtimes when a mex is destroyed they never build a new one (happens only later ingame, when the builders already stopped building).

I also noted they didn't upgraded the mexes a second time (in LLTA you can, the upgrader ai also works with it).
Upgrading still needs a bit of work. I fixed it a little last night, and I'll see how those fixes worked out today.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:They also build now in LLTA and searching enemys is working most of the time, but sometimes the units are like "i want into the base of the enemy". Well there's nothing wrong with it until you have the scenario in the second pic, an army of enemy units next to your base.
This should be remedied once the "attacking dead enemies" thing is resolved.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:Do I guess right if I say that nanotowers are not able to build something (LLTA has a tech4 nanotower which does this)?.
Correct, nano towers currently only are given a Patrol command, so they repair and build, but thats about it.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:And things I found very good are "reclaiming of enemy units", I really had to laugh when I saw this.
:) They're usually too slow to run away, and have no weapons, so I figured at least do some damage and get some resources before getting "asploded".
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- The mexes should be build first, then energy or a factory
It decides dynamically what to build. It won't, for example, build metal extractors if it's full of metal already. This helps support non-standard starting conditions.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- defense should be allowed as soon as the AI has build atleast one factory
Yup, that is what it is supposed to do. Sometimes it runs out of resources to build defenses.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- units stop building for some reason, and don't start again (see pic)
Image
In theory, it should build a factory, a few defenses, some resources, and then go scout for enemies. It probably got stuck waiting for sign of enemies with no scouts to send out.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- when an enemy unit passes the commander, he shoots at it. When the commander was helping to build, the looks at the "to be build" building but doesn't start to help
Can you be more specific?
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- way to expansion happy if there's still enough room in the "Backyard"
This should be fixed after it plays the map 2 or 3 times.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- transportation units are senseless for ai right now, turn them off (or try to turn them off if they have no weapons) see this pic why!:
Image
After it plays a game with them and finds them useless, it should stop building them automatically.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- AI doesn't make use of all available Units (noticable in LLTA)
It picks them randomly at first, since it doesn't assume any particular strengths or weaknesses initially. Should get a bit better after a few games.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- Units get stuck in Factors sometimes (see pic, maybe a problem of spacing?!)
Image
Yeah, I need to rotate the factories.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- totally refuses to build any shipyards now.
This is an issue with this map, as the steep slopes into the water prevent some constructors from building shipyards.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- Ai Needs to think more tactical (If their enemy builds an krogoth, they sometimes just drive by to kill some lonely, weak unit. the AI should try to destroy mass- destruction weapons as fast as possible.
Almost no effort has been spent on Attacking AI yet. (Soon to come!)
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- sometimes when buildings get destroyed the AI which buildings where destroyed is staying on one spot, doing nothing. (both units which fight and units which build)


Can you be more specific?
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- the Com moved to the upper left corner (in the water) for unknown reasons(while his base got destroyed to hide there? (what an ass ;) ))
Yeah I saw this once. It's pretty rare and hard to track down.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:- The "shooting at nothing" bug also appears in XTA.
An issue with not properly removing enemy buildings from target list.

Thanks for the feedback! Any things you noticed that you really like so far?

-QMan
Engine Of Darkness
Posts: 87
Joined: 23 Dec 2006, 21:36

Post by Engine Of Darkness »

Of course, in the pic with the Units piling up in one spot, this was a massive army, something I've only partially seen with AAI.
It was a constant stream of team blue and green which was moving there.
What's also nice is that it's mostly dynamically, some AI's build after a strict "build list" which is booring after a while.

I really hope I don't sound like "this ai is bad". As I really have to say that you really seem to code much in a small time, last tuesday it wouldn't even work right with LLTA, now it already attacks and works pretty well.

Also do Players need to play against the AI to get really "better" or can you let ai fight against ai, this is what I did most time. Also is it neccesary that the Game ends properly? Or is your AI learning "every second" (so to speak).

Ok now to your questions.
Engine Of Darkness wrote:
- when an enemy unit passes the commander, he shoots at it. When the commander was helping to build, the looks at the "to be build" building but doesn't start to help
Can you be more specific?
Ok lets go ;).

1. some Building vehicle builds a building
2. the Comm starts to help
3. an enemy passes by, naturally the comm is attacking it
4. after attacking the com moves back or turns into the direction of the
building
5. does nothing for some time
Engine Of Darkness wrote:
- sometimes when buildings get destroyed the AI which buildings where destroyed is staying on one spot, doing nothing. (both units which fight and units which build)
Can you be more specific?
1. an army is destroying some buildings of AI1
2. AI1 builds some buildings, stops after some time
3. units which where build, drive to one spot, stay there and just shoot back even if the enemy units are far away (the units don't move at all)
4. army is destroying more buildings, ai1 is giving up by building nearly nothing (sometimes after 5 minutes of weapon silence they start to build some windmills ^^) .


Well RAI can build on Water, maybe you can give the comm some "instructions" how to build one later ingame. this should generally work but I think this would need a more finetuned algorithm I guess, so in the end you have to decide if it's worth for a few maps (I dunno how much maps actually have this steer slopes)

I don't know if I described the part ""i want into the base of the enemy"" clearly enough. what I meant is, that if the enemy is next to your base it should defend it at all costs. I somehow don't get how the "attacking dead enemys" is changing this. I think I shoud've put this into the "tactical thinking" section, fits better there.


What also made me wonder is, that till know, the upper part armys have won every game, don't ask me why, happens with nearly all AIs I've tested, very weird though.

------------------------------------

Some New "Updates":

The AI still has the problem of not attacking later ingame (as you said endgam AI is not fully "ready"):

Image

Image

Image


They had an army, but just uses maybe 1-5 units they build in another factory (also the didn't reserve them, I've watched the game 30 minutes more after the screenshot and nothing happened.
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QMan
Posts: 103
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 01:10

Post by QMan »

Just wanted to give everyone an update. My last few changes on my internal build have caused some unexpected freezes and crashes, and I'm working those out before next release.
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