um.... I don't need it playtested, i need to know if the predator is supposed to be a gunship... my script works with the SVN, yeah...
as I was saying... if the predator is supposed to be a gunship, fine, I'll just change the description... but if not, I'll make it a bomber instead of a gunship...
the confusion is that its the Predator Precision Bomber, but it has hoverattack=1;
Xect vs. Mynn: let's GO!
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FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
The Xect already have a lvl 1 gunship, so I'd say make it a bomber. Although, if you make it anything that works we're already ahead.esteroth12 wrote:um.... I don't need it playtested, i need to know if the predator is supposed to be a gunship... my script works with the SVN, yeah...
as I was saying... if the predator is supposed to be a gunship, fine, I'll just change the description... but if not, I'll make it a bomber instead of a gunship...
the confusion is that its the Predator Precision Bomber, but it has hoverattack=1;
Thanks!
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esteroth12
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 18 May 2006, 21:19
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I am actually also wondering about that same thing. I guess that what we can go around doing is testing the mod and mark, to later report, what stuff is broken/wrong. Although i don't know exactly where to report the stuff or that if we should even bother with the Xect (since there seems to be some will to abandon the Xect!?).diggz2k wrote:What should I do to help?
Is that list of things to to on page one being updated as progress is made?
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FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
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FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
The "leggy things" are in neutral pose. Don't worry, they'll be on the ground in a natural pose in the animated final version.
As for the mouth, I'm planning for the teeth to animate. Making the entire mouth able to deform would be too poly-intensive, and/or would require making use of the really crude mesh-deformation animation stuff in COB. Hold off further critique 'til you've seen the skin, I'm about halfway there.
As for the mouth, I'm planning for the teeth to animate. Making the entire mouth able to deform would be too poly-intensive, and/or would require making use of the really crude mesh-deformation animation stuff in COB. Hold off further critique 'til you've seen the skin, I'm about halfway there.
Can you be more specific than, "a little bad"?
Remember, I have to work within Spring's limitations here- I don't have the option of animating this through deformers (er, to be technically correct, I do, but it'd hurt and I ain't gonna). Upping the polycount for the mouth isn't the only problem- I'd also have to make it sectioned for animation, which could get really annoying.
And 95% of the time, you're going to just see a sliver of the mouth from above, anyhow. That's a lot of work for very little payoff, other than a few cool screens that have zip to do with gameplay
Here, lemme show you another shot. Now, please use your imagination- this has some glow on the eyes, the legs are all posed and in motion, there are shadows (for those of us with decent machines, at any rate), etc.
That doesn't look bad to me, honestly. It looks creepy and crablike, which was the plan.
Remember, I have to work within Spring's limitations here- I don't have the option of animating this through deformers (er, to be technically correct, I do, but it'd hurt and I ain't gonna). Upping the polycount for the mouth isn't the only problem- I'd also have to make it sectioned for animation, which could get really annoying.
And 95% of the time, you're going to just see a sliver of the mouth from above, anyhow. That's a lot of work for very little payoff, other than a few cool screens that have zip to do with gameplay
Here, lemme show you another shot. Now, please use your imagination- this has some glow on the eyes, the legs are all posed and in motion, there are shadows (for those of us with decent machines, at any rate), etc.
That doesn't look bad to me, honestly. It looks creepy and crablike, which was the plan.
Well it depends on what view you play in. If you play in FPS like I do, then you see everything on the model. The first thing is it looks like a papermache monster from a old fifties sci-fi show. Very boxy, very fakey looking and very unconvicing. Maybe some of that is the texture, but also I don't like the eye stalks at all (Maybe they should have eyes, rather then just some glowy textures) and the legs lack joints. I think they should have joints, in general.
And from a purely desgine stand point...I don't like the whole 'boxy crab look'. But because this mod has already been made at least once, I suppose theres not much to be done about that.
And from a purely desgine stand point...I don't like the whole 'boxy crab look'. But because this mod has already been made at least once, I suppose theres not much to be done about that.
First off... Spring is going to round this when it renders it. I build the models counting on that, and you can't see it in my uvmapper. It has a shader which will make the shapes seem much more rounded. Or I'll go back and rebuild it.
Second off... see technical limitations of Spring, above. I don't have good choices here- animating things with IK is not an option, period, and organic stuff is where IK is actually superior to BOS- BOS is wonderful for mechanical simulation, but it just doesn't have what it takes for serious organic animation. Therefore, I just have to do the best I can with what is available.
My choices are all bad:
A. Make a version that's rigged really quick, animate it, and then copy-paste the resulting animated "frames" into the model, and then have BOS call them one by one. I did that with the Knight's treads, and it works OK, but it's very costly and I think it'd be disappointing here.
B. Rebuild the body/mouth with a lot've segments, and make it animate in two axis over time. Complicated, complicated, complicated- and it'll probably still look like a fricking robot.
C. Keep it like it is, and use some now-and-again animation of the teeth to make look like the mouth's doing something, which will be pretty effective from above, but not from FPS view.
Giving the whole mouth area lots of joints to give it a really convincing open-close cycle would just be a complete waste of time, imo, because it'd just look like a robot then. I thought about having vaguely squishy-looking things hanging off the front that would wibble when it was walking, but decided that, in the end, it'd basically be a waste of time, when I have an entire mod to overhaul, basically.
Thirdly... the Mynn are composed of spiders and crab-like things, for the most part (they aren't entirely visually coherent, which is one of the problems that I'm going to address). <shrugs> it's just part of their motif- they're supposed to be organic, while the Xect are robotic.
Fourthly... um, do you not see that the legs are composed of two pieces? Maybe I need to get it in-game before you'll see where I'm going with it.
Fifthly... if anybody has a better idea that is:
A. Crab / Spiderlike.
B. Practical and does not require things that cannot be done in a reasonable amount of time in Spring. No requirements for a bazillion animated parts, no squishy crap that'd be almost impossible (and certainly not practical) to animate with BOS, etc.
C. Is presented as 3-view drawing, so that I can model it properly.
... then I'll execute it.
I'll try rigging it in Poser really quick, and see if I can't at least build a tester. It's about the only real option I have, aside from ones that I think would be worse, honestly.
Second off... see technical limitations of Spring, above. I don't have good choices here- animating things with IK is not an option, period, and organic stuff is where IK is actually superior to BOS- BOS is wonderful for mechanical simulation, but it just doesn't have what it takes for serious organic animation. Therefore, I just have to do the best I can with what is available.
My choices are all bad:
A. Make a version that's rigged really quick, animate it, and then copy-paste the resulting animated "frames" into the model, and then have BOS call them one by one. I did that with the Knight's treads, and it works OK, but it's very costly and I think it'd be disappointing here.
B. Rebuild the body/mouth with a lot've segments, and make it animate in two axis over time. Complicated, complicated, complicated- and it'll probably still look like a fricking robot.
C. Keep it like it is, and use some now-and-again animation of the teeth to make look like the mouth's doing something, which will be pretty effective from above, but not from FPS view.
Giving the whole mouth area lots of joints to give it a really convincing open-close cycle would just be a complete waste of time, imo, because it'd just look like a robot then. I thought about having vaguely squishy-looking things hanging off the front that would wibble when it was walking, but decided that, in the end, it'd basically be a waste of time, when I have an entire mod to overhaul, basically.
Thirdly... the Mynn are composed of spiders and crab-like things, for the most part (they aren't entirely visually coherent, which is one of the problems that I'm going to address). <shrugs> it's just part of their motif- they're supposed to be organic, while the Xect are robotic.
Fourthly... um, do you not see that the legs are composed of two pieces? Maybe I need to get it in-game before you'll see where I'm going with it.
Fifthly... if anybody has a better idea that is:
A. Crab / Spiderlike.
B. Practical and does not require things that cannot be done in a reasonable amount of time in Spring. No requirements for a bazillion animated parts, no squishy crap that'd be almost impossible (and certainly not practical) to animate with BOS, etc.
C. Is presented as 3-view drawing, so that I can model it properly.
... then I'll execute it.
I'll try rigging it in Poser really quick, and see if I can't at least build a tester. It's about the only real option I have, aside from ones that I think would be worse, honestly.
Ok, scrap the open/close mouth animations then, just dont have the thing constantly open like that! It makes absolutely NO sence from an evolutionary point of view. There is a reason no (known) animals have huge gaping open mouths like that. Dont get me wrong, the mouth is the only thing i have issues with, other wise it looks good. But big gaping open mouth just SCREAMS cheesy sci-fi.
Ok, ideas:
If you want a crab like thing with scary teeth, have the same basic shape with a CLOSED mouth, and big scary saber-tooth-style teeth sticking up everywhere.
If you want an open mouth, make it deeper, so things can actually be put INSIDE it, it is a mouth after all. Then make the teeth longer, so they meet and even cross a little in the middle. Then the teeth could open up to eat things, holding them in the mouth as they are slowly digested (doesnt need to be animated, just handy explanation thingy).
Or just make it look like a giant crab, with certain alienish bits like extra eyes and backwards jointed legs and stuff.
But, big gaping shallow mouth with pissy little teeth = BAD.
Ok, ideas:
If you want a crab like thing with scary teeth, have the same basic shape with a CLOSED mouth, and big scary saber-tooth-style teeth sticking up everywhere.
If you want an open mouth, make it deeper, so things can actually be put INSIDE it, it is a mouth after all. Then make the teeth longer, so they meet and even cross a little in the middle. Then the teeth could open up to eat things, holding them in the mouth as they are slowly digested (doesnt need to be animated, just handy explanation thingy).
Or just make it look like a giant crab, with certain alienish bits like extra eyes and backwards jointed legs and stuff.
But, big gaping shallow mouth with pissy little teeth = BAD.