So..

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 18 Apr 2005, 12:03

What a retarded idea. WTF is the point?

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 18 Apr 2005, 15:20

Release it slowly? But... what if no one wants to give me the password to download it??!?? What would I do? Would you leave me to go mad?? You can only release it like that if you make sure i get it at some point!

aGorm

Mars Keeper · Post by **Mars Keeper** » 18 Apr 2005, 16:53

Hey, everybody signed up at this forum would get a password.

10053r · Post by **10053r** » 18 Apr 2005, 18:47

Actually, Napalm, I think it is a great idea. The guys at google are geniuses, and I actually think most products can benefit from this kind of release.

1) It creates a feeling of exclusivity, which increases the desireability of the product, which means that the ultimate number of users will be higher.

2) Far more importantly, it lets the producers of the product not be overwhelmed. Imagine if it ended up on slashdot the day after release. The clan-sy server would fold like a wet kleenex under a brick. Those who did manage to download it would flood jouninkomiko's central server, looking for games, which would die approximately 20 minutes after the news hit the front page.

A slow release means the loyal fans (and I'd like to point out here that I've been checking this site EVERY DAY since the initial slashdot story, hint, hint) get their chance, and can help debug.

Without a professional QA team, they need us to help them debug. There are a certain class of bugs that show up with 10 users, and then another that show up at 1000, 10000, and so on. A controlled release means that at each stage, SY can decide how many new users they want, and give out that many invites, thus not getting totally overwhelmed with half a million bug reports about the same off by one error in the startup code that shows up every time you use an ati graphics card (assuming they tested it internally on nvidias, or the other way around if they used ati's, but you get the point).

AF · Post by AF » 18 Apr 2005, 21:36

I agree, and we're likely to spread our invites as quickly as possible to friends and family. Afterral we contributed to the suggestions and ideas, why should the people who cba contributing thoughts get spring before the rush crashes he servers.

Anyways if you need a mirror I'll gladly make space for spring on my site, and I'm sure others will too so just hand the engien out to mirrors when you release and onyl host links to mirrors, that should help somewhat, besides bit torrent should help, especially if you give the forum goers spring before you give the rest fo the world and leave it up to us to spread the word

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 19 Apr 2005, 00:03

Reply to 1.

I don't want to have to wait for it to be "released" to lots of people so I can start getting plenty of games, and I definately want to kick my friends asses straight away.

Reply to 2.

Ever heard of bit torrent?

Anyway, how big could it be?

Don't listen to them SY's they're just jeleous.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 19 Apr 2005, 03:09

Why? You'll still have plenty of people to play with, and if an invite-system is used, then you can still play with people you know and like.

Everybody's a winner!

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 19 Apr 2005, 03:16

If the SY's do it your way I can see alot of people being supremely pissed off.

10053r · Post by **10053r** » 19 Apr 2005, 15:17

The point, Napalm, is not that bit-torrent can't support the number of downloads. Of course it can. The point is that the infrastructure around this project is far more complicated than simple downloads of an iso.

First of all, I submit that were this project released tomorrow to the whole world, the server would collapse under the slashdotting even just trying to serve up the .torrent files.

Second, even assuming that everyone could download the game properly, the game-finder server would collapse nearly instantly. Furthermore, even assuming that that didn't happen, sy would be overwhelmed with bug reports and feature requests.

Look, with a slow release, it's going to be as easy to find a game of spring as it is to currently find a game of TA within a week or so. A month after that, you will be able to play any time of day, any type of game you want. You've been patient this far, what's the big rush?

Besides, of course, THAT WE WANT IT NOW!!!!!! Sorry. I have it under control. How'd that all nighter go, jouninkomiko?

Shade · Post by **Shade** » 19 Apr 2005, 16:30

In my personal opinion I think the passworded release is a better idea... It allows the TA Spring to build up hype as well. And don't question the power of word of mouth.

Ever seen Babylon 5? I think it was in the fifth season; I won't get into details but one of the characters, G'kar, wrote a book. Fearing that he was dead, G'kar's racial leaders took the book for supposed safekeeping. Well, one thing led to another and soon 600,000 copies were made.

Now, that's science fiction, but the underlying concept is still very true to form. My company does software releases all the time - you wouldn't believe how quickly word spreads.

Also, if you allow other people to distribute, think of the resources that you would save - mirrors and IM sharing and so forth.

I think think the idea of open sourcing the project and using Sourceforge.net's resources is the best idea...

-Shade

Sheekel · Post by **Sheekel** » 19 Apr 2005, 19:30

I'm new to the forums, but have been following the Sping project for months now, and I think a slow release would be better. Shade has the right idea. Just be patient

Storm · Post by **Storm** » 19 Apr 2005, 19:47

We've waited for months, we could take another.

AF · Post by AF » 19 Apr 2005, 23:03

Besides if we want lots of people to play with we'll ahve them, people will need soemone to play untill skirmish si sorted otu so ocne you've sent it them they'll want to play you

Shade · Post by **Shade** » 20 Apr 2005, 00:47

Er, nm.

maverick256 · Post by **maverick256** » 20 Apr 2005, 04:59

Everything's been said already, but I guess I still want to repeat it. The slow release is a better idea. Why? Think of a controlled enviroment, for testing purposes. That's why new games have this thing called a limited beta release, you know?

sparkyhodgo · Post by **sparkyhodgo** » 20 Apr 2005, 18:08

I retract my question about advertising Spring. I will not talk about it on big sites until the SY's give me an OK. But once they do, I will tell everyone about this project!

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 21 Apr 2005, 15:00

Hehe, the invite system worked very well for GMail. A simple password wouldn't work, because people would just post the password along with the link to download. And since Spring isn't a mail account but a game, people could share Spring account, unlike gmail where non one will publish his Gmail name and password on large sites. So I don't know if we can really use this restrictive system for Spring.

Also, probably not the best place to say it, but, if Spring require people to have the original TA files to play, the vast majority of people would go the site, maybe try to use it a bit, then realize then can't play without having TA, and leave forever. It would really help Spring popularity if it could be released in a fully playable form with all the contents included.

But we know that the TA units are copyrighted and we don't want legal issue with Atari. And the Swedish Yankspanker aren't going to create 250 units in a night. However, there is a solution. Free units and whole races have already been made, in great number! All that is left to do is:
- Identify good TA races and TCs. (I suggest The Lost Legacy, Rhyoss, and Rumad).
- Find back their author and get their agreements.
- Make sure no cavedog texture is left, no cavedog sound is left.
- Probably make a few textures and sound replacement.
- Make sure they run smoothly and buglessly in Spring
- Make sure it's balanced.

That way, Spring could be released as a complete package, not anymore dependent on TA. I mean think about it, if I told you "OMG, people have remade WarWind with a shiny new engine that makes it even better than today's RTS", along with some amazing videos and pics, you'd probably be interested enough to follow a link or two, and maybe even try the thing if a download was readily available. But if, once that done, you realised you needed to own the original WarWind game, you'd probably just leave angrily and forget about it forever. Well, that's the same for Spring and non-TA people. If they can't play the thing right away, they'll leave at once. If they can easily play the thing by themselves, they are hundred times more likely to stay.

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 21 Apr 2005, 15:14

I agree with zwszg, that's why I think people have to be very well infomed.
Above download link, you need a think like : "You need the ORIGINAL OTA file play Spring. New graphic are beiing made. So, if you don't have OTA, keep bugging our website" is very important to avoid people beiing angry.

And having TTL, in spring would be awesome ! Imagine a game With Core,Arm,TTL,Rumad,Rhyoss in it! (but unfortunatily, it could disturbe new players)

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 21 Apr 2005, 15:40

No, I wasn't saying it must be printed in bold that the OTA files are needed, I was saying Spring should be shipped with a couple 3rd party races.

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 21 Apr 2005, 15:49

@Zwswg : Yes I understand, but testing, debugging and balancing 2 or 3 new races can take 4-5 month...the rumor said it will be relased in a few day, it is impossible to integrate them so quickly.

Anyways , distributing spring with 3rd party race is a must have. But not now.

Spring RTS Engine

So..