Let's learn from Wesnoth and think about the future of spring

[hokomoko]

"Art for art's sake" anything else is uncivilized :)

More like "Art for procrastination's sake"

[8611z]

You know, that is pretty bitter. People here do a job, do a job well, they could do for lots of money.

Hell, you even get laughed at by other techys for joining the game-industry, cause its a stupid move moneywise.

I donated to the server - although i allmost never played on it.
We all contribute and all take.

And we might not make it. No fame and groupies. Not even praise by critics. Maybe all that will remain, is some cobwebbed usb some day with my game on it- and no plattform around to play "grandpas" game.

No reason to get bitter.

Very accurate.

99% of the folks here do things to make themselves and others happier. Being pissed or making others pissed is greatly out of place.

Engine Devs: ohay, we broke yer shit!
Me: ok
Engine Devs: Fix yer shit!
Me: looks for any and all documentation to find essentially, nothing. Yells at engine devs
Engine Devs: we broke your shit and it's your fault that we broke your shit and you're a douchebag for complaining about it because our time is worth more than yours and we're still not going to tell you how to fix it.

That about right hokomoko? Yeah, that's what I thought. Also, I get paid $35 bucks an hour for my time. How much do you make? I have also sunk 10x as much time into working on spring as you have. Just because you work on the engine doesn't mean you're better.

User was warned for this post, Felony 1. (Intentional personal attacks.)

-- FLOZi

[Silentwings]

99% of the folks here do things to make themselves and others happier. Being pissed or making others pissed is greatly out of place.

+1 to that. It's pointless being bitter towards volunteers, it only makes them less likely to help you.

[hokomoko]

Engine Devs: ohay, we broke yer shit!
Me: ok
Engine Devs: Fix yer shit!
Me: looks for any and all documentation to find essentially, nothing. Yells at engine devs
Engine Devs: we broke your shit and it's your fault that we broke your shit and you're a douchebag for complaining about it because our time is worth more than yours and we're still not going to tell you how to fix it.

I'm highly familiar with this issue, and one of my personal goals as an engine dev (and as a person?) is behaving differently and communicating better with the game devs (even if we often don't see eye to eye). I hope they think I succeed and I will keep on trying anyway.

Anyway, back on topic (sorta):
Knorke, what's your personal goal in being part of the spring community? Are you trying to make it a better place? Are you trying to make games? Are you trying to make money?

[Super Mario]

I doubt that anyone would try to make money by selling their games using spring engine. Look at "P.U.R.E" that game hasn't been supported in years.

[gajop]

I doubt that anyone would try to make money by selling their games using spring engine.

I would.

[Super Mario]

I doubt that anyone would try to make money by selling their games using spring engine.

I would.

You would? Well good luck handling the legal technicalities with your lawyer with the gpl license.
If you do somehow manged to be successful, then be sure to pay at least 5% of your sales to the engine devs of a way of saying thanks.

[hokomoko]

You would? Well good luck handling the legal technicalities with your lawyer with the gpl license.

Pretty easy - just release your lua with a GPL compat license.

If you do somehow manged to be successful, then be sure to pay at least 5% of your sales to the engine devs of a way of saying thanks.

well, if the engine devs will want to be paid and gajop would want to pay, sure. But it's pretty hard to do it fairly with so many devs over the years.
Donating to the project (rather than the devs) and/or contributing is much better imo.

[Super Mario]

You would? Well good luck handling the legal technicalities with your lawyer with the gpl license.

Pretty easy - just release your lua with a GPL compat license.

Not every game dev out there wants to do that though.

[hokomoko]

Not every game dev out there wants to do that though.

Since the alternative is picking a different engine, that's a non-issue.

[smoth]

You would? Well good luck handling the legal technicalities with your lawyer with the gpl license.

Pretty easy - just release your lua with a GPL compat license.

Not every game dev out there wants to do that though.

Speak for yourself. Oh wait you contribute nothing...

Most of us share code, art, something. I am hard pressed to find an example of someone who actually produces, not talks about but actually produces content that doesn't pay it forward.

We have had one commercially unsuccessful project

User was warned for this post; Felony 1 (intentional personal attacks)

-- FLOZi

[Super Mario]

Speak for yourself. Oh wait you contribute nothing...

Look smoth, I have no idea what exactly that I did to piss you off, but quit it with your personal attacks.

[Super Mario]

Not every game dev out there wants to do that though.

Since the alternative is picking a different engine, that's a non-issue.

Well I'm sure you don't mind losing potential game devs then, because from what I had read, that is major decided factor for some people.

[hokomoko]

Not every game dev out there wants to do that though.

Since the alternative is picking a different engine, that's a non-issue.

Well I'm sure you don't mind losing potential game devs then, because from what I had read, that is major decided factor for some people.

It doesn't matter what I think. Engine is GPL, end of discussion.
https://springrts.com/wiki/Felony#11.

[Super Mario]

It doesn't matter what I think. Engine is GPL, end of discussion.
https://springrts.com/wiki/Felony#11.

How is stating that license is a major deciding factor for some people a felony? You are getting unreasonably defensive here.

[hokomoko]

http://www.digitalroom.net/humour/argument.html

[raaar]

I doubt that anyone would try to make money by selling their games using spring engine.

I would.

You would? Well good luck handling the legal technicalities with your lawyer with the gpl license.
If you do somehow manged to be successful, then be sure to pay at least 5% of your sales to the engine devs of a way of saying thanks.

I would too.

Free game, but with premium content (unlockable commander mods, units, skins). Using a CC-BY-ND license for the content, even if most of the code is GPL.

issues
1- how much of the money earned by game X should be donated back (paid) to outside entities on the spring community like engine devs or infrastructure maintainers
2- how to distribute money within the maintainers of the game itself

One of the reasons I'm going to be the sole game dev for metal factions is that if it ever makes money i'll bypass the second issue. The only reasonable way to bypass the first one may be to move to a separate infrastructure.


About issue (1), ethically the game devs should donate something back to the "spring community", more if they are using shared infrastructure, depending how much the load due to that particular game is, but how do we know?

[The Yak]

Speak for yourself. Oh wait you contribute nothing...

Look smoth, I have no idea what exactly that I did to piss you off, but quit it with your personal attacks.

smoth is pissed off by ideaguys who constantly criticize and attack others without contributing anything of their own. He's quite consistent about that actually.

This kind of useless negativity annoys a lot of people. smoth is typically the most vocal about it.

You've done little in this thread except criticize engine devs for their contributions and claim to speak for the game developers here. During which you have made apparent you have no clue what your talking about and have very little experience working with the engine and it's games.

You are free to continue to do so as long as you are respectful, but don't expect to make any friends this way.

[Super Mario]

You've done little in this thread except criticize engine devs for their contributions

Which I didn't.

claim to speak for the game developers here.

I claim no such thing

During which you have made apparent you have no clue what your talking about and have very little experience working with the engine and it's games.

Personal attacks is not an argument.

You are free to continue to do so as long as you are respectful, but don't expect to make any friends this way.

That ship have sailed long ago.

Edit: format

[smoth]

Whether you realize it or not, that is what you do. It took me getting fed up to the point of risking upsetting you and getting a warning for it before I would say something. For years, people like you make me crawl up walls. Don't even throw out that complaint about attracting devs. What people like YOU who just have ideas and never put forth the sweat equity to actually see something through? By all means "spearhead" another effort that you loose interest in faster than the average tumblerista and their flavor of the week social justice issue. That is what I think EVERY TIME I see one of your idea posts. Most of the time, I will throw up some token objection or just ignore the silliness but honestly, I will take SINBADev over you anyday. At least he went forward on positive pushes instead of coming in(as if you know enough to tell anyone anything) and tell us how to do it right.

Look ideas are good, but after a while you gotta put some effort behind them otherwise you are wasting my time, your time, and anyone else who has given your idea ears to hear it. You HAVE TO MAKE AN EFFORT. Not that you ever will, I know, I know, I don't know you.... yet i have met you countless times here just in the behavioral patterns of other individuals who never commit to action just sit around pontificating on stuff. Look we all have ideas, we all have different wants and desires, the difference is that I spend the time to actually get into the work. Yes, I don't put out a flavor of the month idea, but that is because I COMMIT TO SOMETHING. I actually sit down and see it through.

DO THAT AND YOU WILL FIND ME YOUR GREATEST ALLY.

DO IT NOT AND EXPECT MY CONTEMPT.

We have had years of idea guys, hell several men made way more effort than you putting rubber to the road and actually doing something. Neddiedrow did TONS OF WORK. Licho actually spent REAL MONEY ADVERTISING. There have been pushes to get us out there in wikis, in magazines etc.

IDGAF do something.

ALSO before you spout off your ignorant bullshit about the GPL and what is compatible, consider that many of us have read the GPL many MANY MANY times over the years and are familiar with it's application. Spring HAS a STATEMENT on project's and their licenses.

I am fully within my rights to make a game and keep the IP proprietary. In fact that is EXACTLY what I am doing. HOWEVER, the moment a PIECE of LUA links to a bit of lua, it has to be GPL COMPATIBLE. GET MAD, I PUT MY CODE AS PD. Art however cannot link, art is a resource not a source file that can link to some GPL. IN fact the version of springs GPL had it in there, don't GPL ART, that isn't what the license is for. Either way, I am giving you a SKYVIEW of it because again, you are NOT COMMITTING REAL EFFORT TO ANYTHING. It would be relevant to help you better understand the GPL if you had a project, or if you wanted to understand how to RESPECT the license and with the license, respect the giants on whom you DEIGN to condescend to.

Feel free to report me AGAIN but you need to read this post and consider the points.

*edit* While I am at it.. since I seem to be cruisin for a bruisin. Yes knorke, that shit where a dev breaks something and looks at me like an asshole for getting confused about fixing it does frustrate me. HOWEVER, that minor frustration I will trade gladly for the features these guys add in. Hoko knows what I am talking about. The latest spring has a bug that raises issue with one of my scripts. Fixing it requires a lesser rewrite of a part of it, however, the way I wrote it to begin with was pretty fucking lazy so you know, 6 of one, half a dozen of another, it has not been that big an imposition. TO DATE the biggest alteration was table.n and that was an easy fix. When it wasn't an easy fix, I just altered my way of thinking of how I needed to store my index.

The devs have done a GREAT job of being NOT assholes about how they fix things. The fact that they had the testicular fortitude to tell zerver he was wrong in his approach despite the cries of the mob who never really looked into it and they still have to deal with that shit always gives a glint to my eye and I always feel like I should buy them a drink if I ever met them in real life for NOT taking the lazier route to optimization.