Think before you reply

[Turpentine]

That is not a reply you are just arguing a different sentence from the earlier post out of context, out of order and providing nothing to continue on. If you are going to keep quoting bits and pieces our of context I will not give you the conversation you crave.

lol question dodging like a boss

do u always argue so poorly?
User has been warned for this post.

[PicassoCT]

the sy-lance.. like someone dropped a matchstick

[smoth]

Just a dead thread now thanks to a certain troll. I was rather hoping to see Yan's reply as he lives in Israel

[Mr. Bob]

I don't think it's particularly helpful to just say that women in general suffer from x and assume no inverse or between the same gender etc. It's probably better to just look at it as human to human interaction on a base level. Obviously there is a difference, generally, between gender interactions, but with this many people on the planet, the general notion of equality filtering the mindset here, and the sheer variability of personalities and opinions regardless of gender, it's silly to just say that we need opinions from women more than men to validate this thread.

I also don't understand why people put so much effort into trying to bleed their dealings with social injustice into legal practice. Especially in the case of the French ban on Burkas. It's sort of ridiculous.

The best way to fight a general opinion is by having a better opinion and trusting that eventually everyone else will too. (By means of persuasion or patience.) As simplistic as it is, it's sort of the way it's been working for ages now. Women have rights in the US/Europe/etc because of bunch of people realized how stupid it was that they /didn't/ have rights, therefore now they have rights. The legal practice is just a reflection after the fact.

Jumping the gun and tacking on a legality that restricts people with stupid opinions from having stupid opinions is just indulging in the problem /of/ the stupid opinion. She should be allowed to wear whatever the fuck she wants, regardless of what that choice is born of. Also, I'll extend that by saying, legally, people should have every right in the world to hate whoever or whatever group of people they want. Laws don't exist to make everyone love each other and get rid of shitty opinions.

This may just be my inner anarchism speaking here, but social evolution actually /does/ work. When you fuck with it to fix one problem you bring about a whole host of new problems.

We can sit here and talk about how retarded it is that person x hates women, and we'd probably all have a legitimate case for that person's idiocy. That's all well and good. But, to say that we should pass laws restricting the victim's of person x's hatred from acting on person x's hatred is absolutely and utterly stupid in every way. Instead, convince person x that his/her opinion is ridiculous.

EDIT: Just convert the word opinion to mindset.* English is fun.

EDIT THE SECOND: Also, as a side note, I don't think it has anything to do with religion. (Regarding the views of women in the middle east.)

It may be reflected in the religion, but to say it's because of the concept of religion is to avoid the fact that humans think what they think because they agree with it. So, the sort of lingering idea that we should abolish the concept of religion because a few people think a certain way and adhere to a religious belief that caters to it is to basically side step the actual issue at hand.

If the people in question didn't agree about their religious views on women, they'd either change the religion or leave it. And, if they somehow still manage to stick with it, they won't act on it or enforce it, because, again, people do what they think they should do.

---



The problem is some people think stupid things. This isn't because of religion or government, it's because they are stupid. If you want to change it, either wait for people to become less stupid, or try to convince them to be less stupid. Passing laws or abolishing religions is avoiding the real issue.

[PicassoCT]

The problem is some people think stupid things. This isn't because of religion or government, it's because they are stupid. If you want to change it, either wait for people to become less stupid, or try to convince them to be less stupid. Passing laws or abolishing religions is avoiding the real issue.

So lets reshape every fool into the image of a enlighted david. Like hundreds of idealists tryied with various Ideas before, and failed miserable. I think if you open the history books, the world looks like a shooting range for backfiring idealism. So if a state trys to ban slavery(aka social pressure) of sorts, he has my support for that.

[Mr. Bob]

I think if you open the history books, the world looks like a shooting range for backfiring idealism.

The point isn't that we are idealistic in how we deal with people who are stupid. Rather, there /is/ an ideal and social evolution is just the best way to get there. So, trying to fix it by doing a bunch of silly bullshit isn't really helping anything.

I'm not saying reshaping everyone is how it works. Though that may work on an individual level, by and large it just takes patience. Women's rights, slavery, race issues, witch hunts, etc were all dealt with after people generally came to an agreement that we were dealing with them horribly. Some of the issues even passed on to legality. But, this was after the fact. In the case of the burka ban, you're just restricting people from doing something they want based on your reasoning that it's due to some other person's hatred/religion/whatever. It's as ignorant as the person you suppose is causing it. In a way, /that's/ the idealistic notion. So yes, history is a shooting range for backfiring idealism. The same kind of idealism you're proposing here. (French revolution, Rome, American Colonies, Holocaust, Stalin's Regime, Mao Tse Tung...)

Say, for instance, that you and me had the power to make laws. (Just us two.) Now say that you and me came to the agreement that chairs are destructive to the world and we have to rid the world of the horrible filth that chairs produce immediately. If we banned all chairs, that's not going to further our case or improve anything. We have to wait or attempt to convince people to agree with us.

The test of time is the best test for our views. Forgoing that is to basically fuck over every facet of what makes society as a whole work.

[smoth]

yeah people treat womens rights as a 1 way door...

A woman should be perfectly ok to:

Be a baby factory
Wear a burka
make me a sandwich
etc

if she wants to, she should be able to choose that also. Pointless careerism is perverted feminism.

[Mr. Bob]

yeah people treat womens rights as a 1 way door...

A woman should be perfectly ok to:

Be a baby factory
Wear a burka
make me a sandwich
etc

if she wants to, she should be able to choose that also. Pointless careerism is perverted feminism.

Mhm. It's the worst kind of oppression. Oppression disguised as moral justice.

[smoth]

Short of just beating people, that seems to be the oldest method in history to. So many kings used religion to manipulate people that way.

[Funkencool]

yeah people treat womens rights as a 1 way door...

A woman should be perfectly ok to:

Be a baby factory
Wear a burka
make me a sandwich
etc

if she wants to, she should be able to choose that also. Pointless careerism is perverted feminism.

couldn't agree more. It's like over-correcting a car, if someone turns to far the other way they're still not going in the right direction, they're just going the other wrong way...

[PicassoCT]

The real question is.. what are those guys thinking that way- doing ont he intertubes? Shouldnt they be out there, working hard, to support the virigin pure baby factory that is going to be sold by there parents to them, keyready?

1000s of years of freaking stagnation, wherever,whenever humanity fell back into that mindset. Not a single apology though.

[smoth]

because by reserving a place for around 1/3 of the population, life becomes easier for them, the 1/3. Women are at like a 2:1 ratio so by oppressing them, the males have an easier time at life. It is stupid imo