Next BA update and sequel?

[Gota]

Duuuhhh...
If anyone here thinks There are not more players cause of gameplay questions he is dead wrong....players only understand the gameplay difference between aa ba sa xta ba2 after years of playing...
The problem is with drawing new players and those dont care about slight gameplay changes between ba and ba 2 or even ba and xta or SA.

Any one of those can replace the current ruler which is BA...
BA is not some natural extansion of TA in terms of gameplay either!!
In fact AA on which BA is based, changed the TA gameplay completely and the fact that back than the engine was much more limited and just straight on didnt allow to have many things the TA engine could do...
BA is not at all a natural TA sucessor in terms of gameplay...
BA much like AA is not some uber thought out game with uber thought out balance, on the contrary it fails completely to fit its balance into most maps, allowing players to only play with a small number of units types unless they are playing some overcramped map.

If you want to get more players and really solve the issue you need things that are beyond some balance changes that only old no-lifers care about...
Oh will t2 bombers do 5 or 6 damage and will samsons fire at land or not...this has absolutely no influence on the influx of players...

Get proper installer proper website proper advertisment and new players.

If TFC cared hed just add the few more decent models that have been created and a few more visuals and this BA 2 or SA or XTA or remodeled BA that already use those models would have absolutely no more influance on player influx than BA does and thus will not be important for the community's strength at all.

[Nixa]

I seriously do think spring is dying and I do think it's because of BA DSD. The thing is this, people come, play for a few months, get bored with it and either switch mods (then leave because of waiting times) or just leave in general. This is the reason why I leave for huge periods of time, and I would bet is the reason most of the posters here hardly play BA anymore.

There are now veterans out there who have hours pretty much solely on DSD.

Btw UAF the mods vision (at least from Noize's POV) was a micro based mod balanced around 1v1. Currently the mod has never adapted for larger games and hence the reason whilst if there is a techer, 80% of the other players will have little influence in deciding a game after 10 minutes.

Our game isn't Different enough to stand out on its own

I think would be the correct term. But obviously we disagree on some things - the biggest of which is he has no team. BA is a dictatorship effectively.

We also plan on doing more than just balance changes, though I thought that was implied I guess I was wrong.

[MidKnight]

Nio, Nixa:

Stop arguing.

Actually make something.

Then we'll talk.

[Neddie]

Nixa did and does make things. Nixa made us (1944) some great maps and made at least one variant mod.

[Jazcash]

Nixa did and does make things. Nixa made us (1944) some great maps and made at least one variant mod.

And Nio's made some widgets too right?

[Neddie]

In fact, didn't he release one last week?

[Jazcash]

In fact, didn't he release one last week?

He did indeed!

[MidKnight]

Oops, I should have clarified. I meant to make a BA sequel prototype before arguing over how a BA sequel should be manages/named.

Thank you for your other contributions to the community, too! We all love you!

[Nixa]

We've got bits and pieces here and there already made, couple of trial mods based on BA (mostly trialing a new economy system) and i've also updated most of the available model updates as well as various other things here and there.

Thing is we genuinely believe this will benefit the community on a whole. This is not for personal benefit to us, and hence I (and others) don't many hours to waste currently on something the community will never try. The funny thing is the large majority of the people that tried BA2 and RA liked the new concepts, but as already been mentioned in this forum it will never catch on because of critical mass and the 'brand' name.

Again it's not that we want to 'take over' BA, but give the community (especially the newer uneducated players) a chance to try these new concepts to their prefered mod. If they like them, so be it, we did them a favor, if they dislike, they can continue playing BA v7.19 no harm done.

P.S. I don't know why the so called '1v1 pros' here are against this idea. After all one of the fundimental goals of this mod will be making smaller games more frequent.

[Forboding Angel]

Thing is we genuinely believe this will benefit the community on a whole. This is not for personal benefit to us, and hence I (and others) don't many hours to waste currently on something the community will never try.

So what does that say about me? I've been working on Evo for years, that doesn't mean it was a waste of time. The current spring populace is not my target demographic (tho they are of course always welcome) so it's not like it's a big deal.

My point is that you can't just sit on the toilet one day and make something great (though I've come close a few times). Shit doesn't just happen, shit takes time, shit takes effort.

[Nixa]

If I had the time you have FA i would make a new mod, but I don't. and whilst you enjoy making evo for yourself, we are more after making BA 2 for the enjoyment of the current community and more importantly new people in the future. It will take time noone ever doubt that .

[Forboding Angel]

My point was that you made it sound as though you have limited time to mess with it. As a result, the BA crowd would be trading one non-active maintainer for another. If you're going to do it, commit to it and do it right, don't just be some half assed maintainer.

There is tons of shit that needs fixing in BA, are you going to fix it? Things that seriously impact performance. Things like the fact that the peewee has 16 pieces when it should have at most 3, the unit scripts are awful, and the explosions are horribly unoptimized. Are you going to fix these things or are you just going to do BA and stroke yourself when people play it? If the latter is the case, don't bother. If the former is the case, well, wtf are you waiting for???

[Nixa]

My point was that you made it sound as though you have limited time to mess with it. As a result, the BA crowd would be trading one non-active maintainer for another. If you're going to do it, commit to it and do it right, don't just be some half assed maintainer.

There is tons of shit that needs fixing in BA, are you going to fix it? Things that seriously impact performance. Things like the fact that the peewee has 16 pieces when it should have at most 3, the unit scripts are awful, and the explosions are horribly unoptimized. Are you going to fix these things or are you just going to do BA and stroke yourself when people play it? If the latter is the case, don't bother. If the former is the case, well, wtf are you waiting for???

No I was just saying I don't have a year or two to work at getting a new mod to a playable state. Also this will not done by just me personally but by a raft of people, with the added benefit that we are all active players of BA.

As for your second part, yes there is a ton shit, but it's less of a ton shit than creating a new mod. I have the luxury of no commitments outside Uni atm, but that will not last forever. Also with a base of players it will be alot easier to get people with the skills required that we lack (mainly modellers). You seem to be under the illusion that I plan on doing this all myself, and if that is the case you are wrong. I would much prefer to see it as a group effort - this way when someone leaves active development is still secured.

[luckywaldo7]

whilst you enjoy making evo for yourself, we are more after making BA 2 for the enjoyment of the current community and more importantly new people in the future.

Forb, you forgot to mention that you are making the game to market to the much larger audience of gamers outside spring.

Nixa, you think too small, you think too BA...

[Nixa]

whilst you enjoy making evo for yourself, we are more after making BA 2 for the enjoyment of the current community and more importantly new people in the future.

Forb, you forgot to mention that you are making the game to market to the much larger audience of gamers outside spring.

Nixa, you think too small, you think too BA...

Really? I thought TA had a huge player base once upon a time

[luckywaldo7]

whilst you enjoy making evo for yourself, we are more after making BA 2 for the enjoyment of the current community and more importantly new people in the future.

Forb, you forgot to mention that you are making the game to market to the much larger audience of gamers outside spring.

Nixa, you think too small, you think too BA...

Really? I thought TA had a huge player base once upon a time

Sure, but did BA ever have a large playerbase?

[Nixa]

Guess that's relative to what you base it against. Spring in general then yes, the world no, or TA, no.

But if you base it against the playerbase of the spring engine over all mods, then yes.

[UAF]

BA 8v8 DSD is not killing Spring.
Lack of players does. I don't think many people really want to only play DSD all the time. They just want to open the lobby, join a game, and play. Unfortunately with the current amount of players it's not that easy.
You are right that the DSD only server is not helping. Since this is the most likely place to find a game to play, this is where people will go.
Also, I tried playing a couple of games yesterday on the [fx] server, and since I was being constantly pitted with several other noob to o.k players against an all [fx] veteran team, I had enough rather fast.

As for BA being a dictatorship - that's a good thing. From my experience projects that don't have a clear leader who have the final word won't get far.
Having a team is good, by you must have a team leader and he must have the final word - no further arguments.
If TFC is working alone and insist that he doens't need a team then that's another problem.


Anyway, IMO (yes, my private opinion) you should approach the entire subject differently.
Take whatever you want form BA, call your game Grand Battle, make a website, a forum, an installer and A DIFFERENT SERVER.
Disengage from Spring and BA as much as you can. (A very good idea will be to get new and better looking models for units, BTW).

Spring is a mess. You have an engine. Then you need to download mods. 90% of the modes looks the same. 99% of the mods are never played. 1 mode is played regularly (BA), and 90% of the people on the server don't play.
I mean, when I log on there are about 300-400 people loged on according to the server, and only 40 play (2 DSD 16 players game, and a few little games).
This doesn't work.

You need a situation where most people on the server play.
To my understanding the only issue with BA2 is the name - change it. Leave Spring and BA altogether, people don't even need to know that your GAME (notice, not a mod, a game) is based on BA which is based on AA which is based on TA. They don't care anyway.

That's my two cents.
8v8 DSD is a symptom of the chronic illness, not the cause. It's time to amputate.

[MiNiMi]

There are now veterans out there who have hours pretty much solely on DSD.

I am one of those veterans ... I started playing BA 1.5 years ago and I know, if there were not 8v8 games, I had never played BA/Spring Mods again.

8v8 game make the games balanced and give new members a chance to have fun in a big battle.

The only thing is dying is the old player generation

call ur mod Oldies Annihilation

[Nixa]

BA 8v8 DSD is not killing Spring.
Lack of players does.

Ever wonder why theres a lack of players.

Here's a brief history lesson for alot of you, as most seemed to have joined around 2008+.

Actually it's a little hard to point it to one thing. However experience really dictates my opinions. Quite simply with the exception of a very very small majority remaining on the forum I've watched the BA brand develop from early AA to BA to TFC BA. It's been a simple pattern really, back in early 2006 AA there was a solid base of players playing a good solid base of maps with a good solid base of game sizes (note: 5v5 max). As a result, the player base over all mod's was growing (albeit slowly I'd admit).

Caydr then decided to destroy his own mod (or so the story goes - I think differently), Noize 'stole' it and BA was born. This was fine, with the exception of the Borification (If I may use this word oh humble trollkings) of 1v1s. In the year that followed 1v1 numbers began to dwindle (along with it's playerbase including myself), which also happened around the time when the engine made 8v8 possible. This may be due to people simply getting on with life, but I personally just got bored with the same WarC dictated "I spam more flash than you" style of balance.

I missed alot of the BA development years as I really didn't play much in 2007/2008. However now (no offence to TFC as it's not really your fault), the game has had the borification applied to larger games. Through the consistant play of larger games and the refusal to adapt the mod to 'balance' around larger games (let us not forget BA is still based on 1v1). As a result, you get the massive eco farms and 'all spam no skill' strategies. Which also leads to the other common scenario where the game is split into techers and non-techers. For the first 12 odd minutes of a DSD game the play isn't actually that bad, sure there is space limitations but 80% of players don't like to stress when playing and that's fine. It's after these 12 minutes in larger games where techers are sheltered that the game becomes disjointed.

Then ofcourse theres always the problem that a techer is basically forced to go air in these situations because of the disjointedness between ground and air currently (Hi I fly my 1250 metal of bombers around your 5000 metal of AA towers, lose one then deal 10,000 metal of damage) - and that's on a porcy map like DSD, unless someone built 600 metal of T2 fighters... Unfortunitly, if they did build those fighters then over the next 20 minutes 400 more fighters fill the sky and 80% of people lag to much to play. I gotta say, it's a little fun lagging others to death because my i5 is better than your p4 which means I must be a better player than you right?

Anyway, I know the arguments are going to be 'well it shouldn't get to 400 fighters' or 'that's because everyone sucks' which are great if you take out the point that history shows us that the majority games do get to that stage.

And and MiNiMi, your a newbie if you've only been here 1.5 years . No but seriously, you fall into the 80% of players that don't want a stressed game which is fair enough. If anything we would aim at giving that player group more attention in the development. Wouldn't you like to play a game where all 8 players had a role from start to end and you wouldn't die because your air player was 1 minute slower than theirs (or lag out from massive fighter shields and flea spam)?

And I don't question that the old player base has died out, you'll be struggling to find someone from the AA days. The thing is the growth that was there isn't anymore because the amount of people that join (which is getting fewer because DSD is a very hostile environment actually due to the precise strategies worked out) now equal those that get bored and leave.

EAT MY WALL OF TEXT