Balanced Annihilation Development

[Saktoth]

Things

True, actually, but very little to do with the sea game. It wont fix it. With sea mexes, you cannot take them or raid them with air. So this isnt a solution to the large teamgame style maps where sea is a problem. Remember sea mexes were only introduced in CC. So this would be first and foremost (Again) a map problem.

[Gota]

Things

True, actually, but very little to do with the sea game. It wont fix it. With sea mexes, you cannot take them or raid them with air. So this isnt a solution to the large teamgame style maps where sea is a problem.

Well that's why it might be a good idea to add torp gunships to t1.
This will have zero effect on air versus land gameplay but will have a big effect on sea versus air.
Eat the cake and leave it whole.

[Saktoth]

Things

True, actually, but very little to do with the sea game. It wont fix it. With sea mexes, you cannot take them or raid them with air. So this isnt a solution to the large teamgame style maps where sea is a problem.

Well that's why it might be a good idea to add torp gunships to t1.
This will have zero effect on air versus land gameplay but will have a big effect on sea versus air.
Eat the cake and leave it whole.

Actually not a terrible suggestion, esp if air made UW mexes, but the problem with sea is mostly ship vs ship play. Unless you want to muscle ships out of the sea entirely and replace them with air and hovers, this isnt going to fix sea. More land-sea integration might be a step in the right direction though, who knows. Could possibly ruin SoW, though only because air is already so good at expanding early.

[Gota]

Air is not good at expanding early.
Air cons are extremely expansive in build time and e and have exactly half the build power of land cons.
All these huge disadvantages are only slightly paid for by the air cons speed compared to other cons.
All other forms of expansion are faster.
Land,sea and hovers.
Air is only useful when its the only one that is able to expand...like say on GoW where nothing you make except air can expand properly and take mexes(probably even amphibious cons form the t veh lab will expand faster and will have bigger chance of overtaking an area form an air con).

Hovers can expand on GoW but you need to first make a t1 lab make cons reclaim it and than start a hover lab.
Since GoW is a small map,an air played can grab a big % of mexes before hovers start their expansion, though hovers will quickly eliminate air's advantage by raiding the air player's mexes with scouts.
The air cons will have no chance of defending by making turret since air cons,again,have a very low build power(not to mention ship AA).


Ship to ship battle might be hurting cause of dedicated defenses and the reliance on expansive units like the corvettes as main units.
Some say sea is unpopular and not as much fun cause mexes are unraidable by corvettes.
Thing is that in OTA it's the same yet sea battles are loved.

[Tribulex]

k to fix sea you need telescoping mexes, you can have them underwater and they cost more e to run but then you can have them extend a boom upward and they cost less e to run and look retarded BUT THEN here is the real genius of my proposal. you can disguise the floaty mexes as other units (krogs, cans, sumos, juggernaut, bantha, pewee) and scare off the enemy who things there is a deadly robot in the water, but really you just fooled them with your decoy field generator that activates when you float your mex.

One other thing i want to see is a pelican with grappling hooks. basically pelican currently sucks and it needs to have more features. I recommend adding grappling hooks to allow it to climb vertical cliffs very quickly. also like a real pelican it should be able to store fish (submarines) and other units (pewees) in its mouth, and then be able to spit them out after scaling cliffs.

so imagine this: You have pelicans, you load them up with pewees and t2 subs, you have them scale the mountains on SSB and unload all the subs and pewees into their techers base. then the subs and pewees are deployed, and the pewees eat the nanos and the subs fire their torpedos at commanders, fusions, and any planes overhead. It would be much better than current pewpew laser pelicans.

[Saktoth]

Why do you... exist.

[Hacked]

Why do you... exist.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

k to fix sea you need telescoping mexes, you can have them underwater and they cost more e to run but then you can have them extend a boom upward and they cost less e to run and look retarded

well,

how about making 2 types of t1 sea mex?
A surface one that is cheap as per land
the underwater one that costs 2-3x as much (not buildable by com)

then you have the same mechanics as the mex/twilight at sea

could expand that to above and below water tidals with underwater costing more.

[Hacked]

on land though, twighlight has a cloaking benefit and it also stuns on death
an underwater tidal would be pretty vulnerable to subs or ships with torps. if they cloaked, ppl would build them before losing lategame and it would take forever to seek them out and kill them

[1v0ry_k1ng]

being underwater protects against all air but torp bombers, plus all hovers, corvettes and scoutships.

[Zydox]

on land though, twighlight has a cloaking benefit and it also stuns on death
an underwater tidal would be pretty vulnerable to subs or ships with torps. if they cloaked, ppl would build them before losing lategame and it would take forever to seek them out and kill them

Doesn't most battles end when the last commander dies?
Other than that, I'd assume that the cloak would require energy in the same way as twilights so I don't see that as an issue...

Not saying that I like the id├®a though...

[1v0ry_k1ng]

underwater units cant be allowed to cloak

i mentioned the twilight in the capacity 'alternate, more expensive but more defensible mex' not cloaking. being underwater is better than cloaking

[HectorMeyer]

It's true that many problems in BA result from the map design.


My 2 main observations:

1) On combined land/sea maps sea metalspots create huge problems, since an early, decisive sea rush gives you tons of metalspots which are basically impossible to take away from you in a timely manner. This problem is especially bad on maps with "ponds" like SSBF and Tangerine, on maps with only "one" sea like Tropical its not that bad.

This again is a problem of:

a) The bad land/sea interaction in BA. Again, I vote for making the hoverlab cheap and buildable by the commander and balancing hovers accordingly. I don't see any reasong why this shouldn't be possible, as long as hovers are made more inefficient than bots and vehicles.

b) The lack of good sea defenses, making it hard to set up positions and frontlines, which would lead to sea being divided into certain territories controlled by the two sides for some time, DSD basin style. Instead it's often an all or nothing pretty early on sea, huge porcy games on sea are very rare, it is usually decided by a few T1 destroyers. Right now, there is no static defense against destroyers and the land based depthcarge launcher with its silly range is a bad joke. As already pointed out, it's a real shame since huge sea battles, with many "sea fortresses" to take down could be very interesting with it's different domains sub, sea, hover, air.



2) On ALL maps, resources are scattered all over the map, and they are never really defended by chokepoints. This is imo exactly the reason why we never see T2 in 1v1 games. It would be very interesting to see how BA plays with "starcraft-esque", "chokey" maps, with snakey, long clifflines, resources focused on certain defendable spots, "natural expansions", huge resourceless areas etc..

[imbaczek]

2) On ALL maps, resources are scattered all over the map, and they are never really defended by chokepoints. This is imo exactly the reason why we never see T2 in 1v1 games. It would be very interesting to see how BA plays with "starcraft-esque", "chokey" maps, with snakey, long clifflines, resources focused on certain defendable spots, "natural expansions", huge resourceless areas etc..

such maps have in fact been made. games played on them are usually called by the term "porcfest". such maps work in starcraft because defensive structures are quite weak.

[Gota]

It's all or nothing on sea because the early defense that exists on land is not there,namely the commander.

[Tribulex]

okay well to remedy that we need a new faction called aquamarines who has a KOMMANDANT who is having the torpedos coming out of his extended member to kill early scouts with mAGOR PENOR lol but his primary focus i just sea he doesnt need a lab his belly can open up and make ships kind of like a human femail can make babys only with the [CENZORED].

That should solve sea balance problem also why makes 3 different mexes if they all do the same thing instead of land,sea,floating, space, and air mexes just have 1 single MOBILMEXSUPREM which can be spam comme une fraise du bois! He can fly over mex spots and capture their metal, also land and float like a duck but he can be protect since he can fly back to base wheen enemy get near to him.

so what such a MOBILUNIT could do is greatly improve the GAMEPLY so it is all based on territory control since h is Suprem he is also very WEEK and can die to very easily so thus only territory control can gain you resources which is the way all rts should be

[Mav]

Recovers us to need very well to have Fuhrer to have the torpedo the member who lengthens from him to come out to kill has donkey lol, but his main focal point's early time's scout I the sea he does not need the laboratory his abdomen possibly to open and to make the ship to call the cyan color a new faction a little, if person of femail possibly makes only babys and genitalia.

Why should that also solve the sea balanced problem to make 3 different mexes, if they all do the identical matter, but is not the land, sea, float, space, and air mexes has may be the transmission similar news to many news group comme une fraise du bois 1 only supreme mine! He may fly in the mex spot and captures them the elephant duck's metal, also lands and the float, but he may be the protection, because he may fly returns to the base wheen enemy to have nearly him.

So any such dancing soldier possibly does very greatly improves flow game, therefore it acts according to the territory control all, because h is he is also the unusual week, and may die to very easy place Suprem, therefore the territory control is only possible, thus causes is way all rts should be you obtain the resources

Makes about as much sense, IMO

[Hacked]

emmanuel? lol

i think all sea really needs is some early defense to ward off guerilla tactics and rushes
nothing too powerful, but its gotta be long enough range to take down a lone destroyer
its the reason land is playable,
if there was no llt, youd win by building a jeffy.
its not so different with sea

some kind EFFECTIVE early defense
right now sea is win or lose before anyone gets to have any fun

[Pxtl]

Nerf range and cut price of destroyers, making them affordable for raiding underwater mexes and less able to pwn from long range. Boost range on shoreline launchers so that it will not just outrange the destroyers, but will protect nearby shipyards and econ. Nerf speed of shoreline-launcher projectiles so scouts can more easily outrun them. Cut price on subs because this shoreline-launcher & cheaper destroyers thing will make them otherwise useless. Buff the power of L1 sea units (and the FHLT especially) across-the-board so they can properly pwn hovers (except the rocket-hover, obv). Bring back the viking and cronus (short-ranged bombardment ships from AA 1.44) as an overpriced-and-slow high-traj artillery unit to replace the lost role of the Destroyer. Thus, L1 sea-players can dominate the water, but their ability to influence the land is nerfed because if they want to smash something from a safe firing range, they need the floating equivalent of the Guardian.... but at the same time, an L1 land-player can use Shoreline launchers to set up a safe-space to get a shipyard in-play. And, as always, a sea player can rape anything not protected by shoreline-launchers.

And for pete's sake, add an AA Amphib to the Naval Eng buildlist.

[JohannesH]

Lets change all sea unit to something totally different, yay