SupCom-esqe spawning of the commander

[luckywaldo7]

The team is not "down a factory" - starting with gunships is quite viable on large maps with lots of cliffs. Really, the teammate-atlas-boost-cheese is the only approach I've ever seen. And the problem wasn't just that he took out a player, but that he was a costly distraction to fight against while trying to play the front lines - yes, in the end the boost-rush player is eliminated, but in the mean time the enemy gets a good run of the map.

I'm talking about the player who is dropping saving all of his boost for that drop. In which case he does not build a factory. So his team is a fac down. If he was building a factory he might as well make his own atlas.

the boost rush player that got dropped will easilly kill a player he will then distract all the ally team because hes in there terrirtory and if he boosts wisely can take out another player with ease on congested maps.

the distraction alone is worth it especially in 4v4+ and it takes a while to kill a player with boosted statics very early in the game without focusing to much of your attention and resources towards it to not loose the front line and gimp your expand.

the rewards boost rushing vary depending on map.

All it takes to defeat a drop is some arty. If you can't send like 2 or 3 arty and expand at the same time, your a nub at micro go play turn-based strategy.

Your team is only gimped if the dropper manages to kill off 1 person entirely, that is he loses all his cons and his commander. If that happens he sucks at games entirely and probably should be playing Hello Kitty Island 3.

All you need to do if you are dropped on is to keep your cool, don't let it distract you. Keep expanding with what you do still have, and have your allies send some arty. I can't stress how much rape arty brings to statics spam.

tbfh, the only time a boostdrop is good is when you drop on someone starting fusion. And you guys know how I feel about fusion starts anyway.

[Otherside]

you dont get it do you...

statics on average do 3 times cost to mobile units not including arty.

you can have a heatray or antiswarm creep up on you at pointblank range regardless of what unit you try to make to beat it you will lose because its so early in the game.

Even if you yourself make arty it will fail becaused of the ammount of statics and relative low dps of the arty you can get so early in the game.

you would need an ally to send in arty.

if you got boost rushed 5-6 mins in you would be able to defend yourself the point is your being rushed just after you finish your first few buildings.

so at most you probs have 3 mexs an llt some solars and a factory and probably your first or second unit of that factory.

Now how are you suposed to beat insta llt hlt antiswarm at short range with 1 com and a gator/ak/peewee/flash.

it makes the game more blind RPS than it already is at start and adds nothing to gameplay + its lame.

all that is needed is boost limit within start positions

[imbaczek]

spawn with a free nano?

[Pxtl]

spawn with a free nano?

... that's actually pretty clever. Don't know if it would be perfect, but it's a thought. As a substitute for the nanopower-boost, not the resource-boost, right?

[luckywaldo7]

you dont get it do you...

statics on average do 3 times cost to mobile units not including arty.

you can have a heatray or antiswarm creep up on you at pointblank range regardless of what unit you try to make to beat it you will lose because its so early in the game.

Even if you yourself make arty it will fail becaused of the ammount of statics and relative low dps of the arty you can get so early in the game.

you would need an ally to send in arty.

if you got boost rushed 5-6 mins in you would be able to defend yourself the point is your being rushed just after you finish your first few buildings.

so at most you probs have 3 mexs an llt some solars and a factory and probably your first or second unit of that factory.

Now how are you suposed to beat insta llt hlt antiswarm at short range with 1 com and a gator/ak/peewee/flash.

it makes the game more blind RPS than it already is at start and adds nothing to gameplay + its lame.

all that is needed is boost limit within start positions

OK, I think I might know where you are coming from. We had a game recently on Isis Delta where I boostrushed and killed 2 people easy. The thing with that game though was that I took a com that spawned in their startbox. It took me literally two steps to reach the first guy, who had boosted a fusion and let himself die on my 2 llt by not moving. The next guy gave an effort but I still had 800 worth of boost to spend.

That was crazy op, but it doesn't represent how it works normally. Normal boost drop/rush take so much longer to execute, and you often end up with half your boost already spent or risk taking even longer. That game is just a bad example because it was broken. Boost rushing does not happen that way.

Besides, how exactly would you intend to go about limiting boost to start area? Would you just lose all boost if you walked too far away? Would it come back if you went back to your start spot? It still wouldn't prevent people from boost-assisting which will be the next "lame tactic".

[Neddie]

Besides, how exactly would you intend to go about limiting boost to start area? Would you just lose all boost if you walked too far away? Would it come back if you went back to your start spot? It still wouldn't prevent people from boost-assisting which will be the next "lame tactic".

Undoubtedly it would be similar to DGun Limit, though there would have to be a track on the boost so it doesn't regenerate when you exit and reenter the zone.

People already boost-assist. Look for a three on three, [D] against [LCC] on one of those cursed moon maps. Surely is a replay floating around somewhere.

[Pxtl]

This is why I prefer the fac-in-a-box, personally. Picking one of 3ish factories that are appropriate for the map at hand is good enough diversity in openings, as far as I'm concerned.

[smokingwreckage]

I don't see how you can stop some lame tactics with a game as flexible as current CA under Spring. Maybe there needs to be a "competition" checkbox that limits or disallows boost, uses fixed start points, etc.

Personally, I play Chickens in CA, which has allowed me to get about 4 of my mates into Spring who really aren't big RTS fans. Hell, I don't have the time or inclination to play competitively, being over 30, married, kids, etc.

Short version: BOOST is awesome for Co-op Vs Chickens, so please continue to allow it.

[Pxtl]

If you played a lot of BA head-to-head, you'd see that tactics like this are actually _worse_ for casual players like you. You see, by allowing these crazy first-five-seconds tactics, it means you have a longer list of bizarre esoteric attacks you have to prepare for, and stand a greater chance of seeing the game end before it's even started.

[Otherside]

i also think boost assist is cheap and ive mentioned that before.

[Google_Frog]

Another option is to not use boost when assisting factories. It would be very easy to do but I'm still not convinced that boost rushing is a problem.

[imbaczek]

isn't the problem with boost rushing the fact that the best counter is boost rushing?

[Raxxman]

I'd say the problem with boost rushing is some rushes are uncounterable without guessing the tactic and deliberately perparing for it. But if you do that and they don't then you're at a disadvantage because you just wasted your boost.

It's rock paper scissors, and a bit lame.

Boosting however is a nice idea, I like the boost time limit idea. Boost decay would also work.

[luckywaldo7]

*sigh*

I've had plenty of experience with both boost rush and assist and I don't think its lame or overpowered. If one of you guys wants to play some games with me and prove me wrong I'm more then willing to participate.

And as far as other options go, I'm against limiting boost in arbitrary ways or otherwise limiting your start build like fac-in-a-box does. Limiting start options just makes the game more shallow. If boost is really op I say scrap it and go back to normal full starting resources.

[Gota]

The real problem is that it is a guessing game...
The issue is build speed versus walking speed.
Iv thought about this idea which seems pretty kewl but i decided it won't fit SA so maybe you guys can use it.

It goes like this:
When you have a small amount of units the game is faster than normal but as the average number of units per player increases the game slows down.
The more units per player on average the slower the game slows down so you wont reach very low game speeds.

If this is implemented,the game will move faster at start when you don't have much to do and will slowly slow down as players have more units and need more time to manage and micro units and special abilities.

[CarRepairer]

I agree that adding more specialized rules is a bad thing. But in this case people have good points that boostrushing can ruin games. How about adding another start option called "limited boost" where your boost doesn't apply to building anything with a weapon - LLT, HLT, units in a factory, etc. You won't lose any boost if you build these things but your comm would build them normally with the nano, and you can continue to build something else later like a solar with your boost. This can be easily done, as an option and if you prefer a regular boost game you can use that too.

[Yogzototh]

While i like the boost for many new options it allows for players, such as fusionrush, or 2coms1fac, or compush, this great number of choices also leads to issues.

Boost offers great versatility for start strategies, and there are so many of them that it is completely impossible to counter all of them at once. So all you can do is also just pick one and hope that it works against whatever your opponent has picked. Since these start setups happen in the first few seconds of a battle, you dont have time to scout the enemy base and adjust your plan accordingly.
This basically turns the game opening into the simple blind Rock-paper-scissors. Which i dont like.
It especially unbalances 1v1 games on small maps, where the opening makes up 70% of the game, and seeing that your enemy uses a start strategy that counters yours means that you are pretty much fucked.

[luckywaldo7]

While i like the boost for many new options it allows for players, such as fusionrush, or 2coms1fac, or compush, this great number of choices also leads to issues.

Boost offers great versatility for start strategies, and there are so many of them that it is completely impossible to counter all of them at once. So all you can do is also just pick one and hope that it works against whatever your opponent has picked. Since these start setups happen in the first few seconds of a battle, you dont have time to scout the enemy base and adjust your plan accordingly.
This basically turns the game opening into the simple blind Rock-paper-scissors. Which i dont like.
It especially unbalances 1v1 games on small maps, where the opening makes up 70% of the game, and seeing that your enemy uses a start strategy that counters yours means that you are pretty much fucked.

This is no different then ordinary starting resources. The only difference is that boost is twice as fast.

[JohannesH]

This is no different then ordinary starting resources. The only difference is that boost is twice as fast.

It is different, in that it allows you to go further to the extremes.

[CarRepairer]

Added limited boost option. Try it out.