Flames brewing...

[Pressure Line]

scratch makes a pretty harsh remark, but keep in mind pressure pretty much insulted everyone who plays TA mods.

paraphrasing what scratch said, for the tl;dr crowd "every mod that isnt a TA mod is a waste of time." or course i took offence.

[Machiosabre]

more like: if a new mod doesn't get played its the mod, not the players.

and that was still after you went all "if you give them anything other than TA it ends in tears, whining and raegquit."
so who started that fight?

saying the new things don't tempt you from the old things is a pretty meek response to someone saying people who play the old things are too stupid for the new things if you ask me.

[Pressure Line]

i thought you were talking about an inflammatory comment Scratch made in another thread.

it was an observation based on experience. people are either being stupid, or bloodyminded. and i never said "people who only play BA are stupid" i said "people who try to play everything like its BA are stupid" there is a difference, a big one.

[Machiosabre]

I think you can appreciate that phasing that "if you give them anything other than TA it ends in tears, whining and raegquit."" is liable to get you flamed though.

and this thread is about stuff that splits content guys from TA guys so i thought it was an excellent example.

[kiki]

The thing about gaming in general is there is a problem with the stereotypical modern gamer. He or she is looking for something with graphics in the form of blood (Gears of War) or amazing worlds (WoW). In addition, in the case of WoW, there is socialization involved. However, the "real gamers", that include me, tend to look down on this idea (i am not using this to bring me up, but I am simply representing a viewpoint), and play games for the gameplay, as forb was saying. The thing about TA is that it has good gameplay. You can porc, you can tech to krogoth, you can spam, you can nuke, you can stealth attack, you can rez armies, you can setup cameras and motion sensors. There is a beautiful variety in game play. In addition, there are two factions that are fundamentally similar, but have different strategies. Arm is making lots of units (flash spaem lol), and Core is making powerful units (krog in ur base killin ur peewees lol). And these different factions perfectly represent people's play styles. I like powerful units that I can micro carefully to achieve victory. While I cannot do this yet, Core fits my playing style. Now, I love original content as well, for the refreshing new game. I would play EE and FF all day. The thing is that people tend to come to spring for the TA. Also, these other mods afaik have not yet achieved the same level of gameplay that ta has achieved. The main reason for this is that the userbase is small enough that the levels of play that ta sees have not yet been exposed. I would say the only thing to counter this is advertising.

Well basically what I am trying to say is original content is important to those who want the great gameplay of ta. This is pretty much everyone in the spring community (The forum has includes a higher concentration of anti-ta, because pro ta people just eat the *A mods and are happy, so dont contribute). However, the great growth and culmination of efforts of the spring contributors lies in the creation of amazing original games.

[SinbadEV]

Well basically what I am trying to say is original content is important to those who want the great gameplay of ta. This is pretty much everyone in the spring community (The forum has includes a higher concentration of anti-ta, because pro ta people just eat the *A mods and are happy, so dont contribute). However, the great growth and culmination of efforts of the spring contributors lies in the creation of amazing original games.

Well stated... aside from making it sound like TA players don't contribute which isn't what I think your are trying to say.

[Pressure Line]

My opinion is these other mods are waste.

from this thread aboiut 1/3 of the way down page 9.

He is a TA mod fan, and will never be anything but. He has stated, as a matter of public record that he thinks that anything that isnt a TA mod is a waste of time. Obviously him and people who are passionate about their own, non-stolen content (because thats what it is, there is no sidestepping that issue) when placed together are gonna react like a burning warehouse full of fireworks, it may not all blow up at once, but man is it gonna be spectacular!

[Machiosabre]

see you're doing it again: "non-stolen content (because thats what it is, there is no sidestepping that issue)"
now I don't care if its true or not, but you might as well not say stuff like that and avoid a pointless argument.

you make a point and then strap some stupid thing on that will just get other people arguing.

its like saying "euthanasia should be legal" and topping it with "everyone in iceland smells like parrots." what are people going to respond to, seriously?

[AF]

The thing is that people tend to come to spring for the TA. Also, these other mods afaik have not yet achieved the same level of gameplay that ta has achieved. The main reason for this is that the userbase is small enough that the levels of play that ta sees have not yet been exposed. I would say the only thing to counter this is advertising.

As I keep saying the "everyone came here for TA" point is moot, because if you advertize a game purely for its blood and gore then naturally people will come for it blood and gore because there isnt anythin else to come for. All those people wanting the krogoths don't come because they just see blood and gore advertised.

So of course everyone came for TA, how could they not? After all all our advertising states TA this TA that, there's nothing suggesting we have anything but TA to offer, so anyone not interested in coming for TA tends not to come.

If I start making eggs made of pure gold that weigh a tonne but have a small nugget of coal in the middle, and I don't advertise the gold and just say 'here are my eggs, they weigh a tonne and there's coal in the middle', then naturally the only people who buy them are the ones interested in the coal. What you're failing to see here is that TA is the coal and Spring is the egg, and your saying 'we shouldn't advertise the free gold because everyone here came for the coal'.

Granted I wouldn't value TA as coal, but you get the point?

Pressureline. If you really believe that scratchs motives arent sincere and that we shouldnt give him the time of day then your best path would be to ignore him. If he isn't worth the time of day then set an example rather than pandering to his wishes.

If indeed scratch is as you say he is then he'll start to stand out and you'll be respected and trusted all the more for showing and exercising a higher level of restraint. If you need to let off steam, there are plenty of people who are here to chat with in private.

[det]

1) SpeedMetal is an awesome map and most people fail to comprehend its greatness. Caydr, I challange you to 5 SM games. I will beat you 5 times in a row using 5 different strategies.

2) The TA mods are not "killing" Spring. They are its lifeblood. Sure, some day there may be an original content mod that rivals or exceeds TA mods. When that day comes, however, you can thank TA mods keeping this community afloat in the meantime. It is a common falacy to assume people would be playing another mod if AA/BA did not exist. They probably wouldn't be playing Spring at all. The existence of TA mods is the only reason you have a community to promote your mod to in the first place.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Det, that was not a fact that I denied in my post at all. If anything it was one of the clear points I was making.

[zwzsg]

The thing about TA is that it has good gameplay. You can porc, you can tech to krogoth, you can spam, you can nuke, you can stealth attack, you can rez armies, you can setup cameras and motion sensors.

In TA porcing and teching to krogoth are sure way to lose, there are no cameras nor motion sensors in TA, and rezzing armies happens about never (though controlling graveyard is the deciding factors of many games, they're used to reclaim the metal, not to rezz armies). This is not the TA gameplay you are describing. Maybe it's because you meant BA gameplay, while by TA I mean the old Cavedog game with its official units.

Oh, and that AF metaphor was lol.

Sure, some day there may be an original content mod that rivals or exceeds TA mods.

Maybe it has already happened, just the BA crowd didn't notice because they never play any?

[Sleksa]

The thing about TA is that it has good gameplay. You can porc, you can tech to krogoth, you can spam, you can nuke, you can stealth attack, you can rez armies, you can setup cameras and motion sensors.

In TA porcing and teching to krogoth are sure way to lose, there are no cameras nor motion sensors in TA, and rezzing armies happens about never (though controlling graveyard is the deciding factors of many games, they're used to reclaim the metal, not to rezz armies). This is not the TA gameplay you are describing. Maybe it's because you meant BA gameplay, while by TA I mean the old Cavedog game with its official units.

Oh, and that AF metaphor was lol.

if you want to be a elitist dick, atleast try to do it properly.

Sure, some day there may be an original content mod that rivals or exceeds TA mods.Maybe it has already happened, just the BA crowd didn't notice because they never play any?

out of every 5 new mod for tas, 4 proclaim to be superior to BA . did you know that some sick fucks are still playing nethack even though morrowind series have been out for years, did you know that some people are actually playing STARCRAFT from 10 years ago, when they could all be playing new superior warcraft 3 which exceeds everything out of starcraft

if you want to be a elitist dick, atleast try to do it properly.

again just for a friendly reminder

[AF]

det, what you say is nonsense because there is no way of proving it even with circumstantial evidence.

There is nothing to say spring could not survive on pure, gundam, or kernel panic alone if it was marketed correctly.

However since they have never been given a chance, you cannot say that it would not work. If anything, the fact that there are mods older than BA that are still being actively developed should make your point somewhat irrelevant.

The main point here is that if things continue as they are, they never will have a chance, spring will continue to be 3D TA to the outside world and we'll be artificially restricting our influx of users and our capacity o retain them and grow our community in order to main logical fallacies and taboos in our communities structure that do far more harm than good.

[Boirunner]

There is nothing to say spring could not survive on pure, gundam, or kernel panic alone if it was marketed correctly.

This is a horribly stupid thing to say.

[BaNa]

did you know that some people are actually playing STARCRAFT from 10 years ago, when they could all be playing new superior warcraft 3 which exceeds everything out of starcraft

STFU U!

[kiki]

without ota mods, half or more of the existing userbase would shrivel up and die.

[SinbadEV]

well... I suppose when TA3D really get's up to snuff we'll find out, won't we.

[Fanger]

I dont have any issue with TA mods.. never have.. for some reason people always thought I did.. still do apparently..

I dont.. I have issue with people insulting my work, deriding me for making something.. and so forth.. Basically as a modder I figured this was big beach and there was enough room to go over somewhere and build my own little sand castle, and if people wanted to come over and admire it cool beans.. Problem was that after I made my little sand castle, a bunch of people came over and started telling me it was crap, their castle was better.. etc.. This of course made me defensive and irritated.. However atm I dont really care anymore..

Secondly, Ive actually become irritated with the people who are fans of EE.. and so forth.. why because they constantly go around and talk about EE being prominant and having lots of players at X time, and then complain that I ruined it, or that its dormant.. Why cant they accept that it Never had lots of players, was never popular, and never will be popular.. No one cares about it, except maybe me.. and should just stop mentioning it.. cause then maybe it will go away..

[kiki]

BTW, i dont think I have given u enough of my own praise fang.