Balanced Annihilation V5.8

Complicated · Post by **Complicated** » 30 Sep 2007, 15:51

Despite my team mostly bailing, cefte and I remained and 80% of the bertha shots were direct on a major building, the radar blips had nothing to do with it because of radar planes mapping the buildings via ghost buildings.

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 30 Sep 2007, 17:15

Shields don't stop accurate Bertha shots, period. unless you have 2 shields right on top of each other, which is completely cost inefficient.

Old news.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 30 Sep 2007, 17:24

Complicated wrote:okay ontopic, The LRPC are too accurate, they ended a greenfields game really quickly.

That means the change was a good one and is working properly.

MR.D wrote:Shields don't stop accurate Bertha shots, period. unless you have 2 shields right on top of each other, which is completely cost inefficient.

Old news.

Perhaps shields need to be fixed then.

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 30 Sep 2007, 18:44

If most of your team bailed, you probably would have lost anyway. A replay would be helpful, personally ive not had a chance to see the new berthas in action.

If it is seen that berthas are too powerful, it may be prudent to increase the effectiveness of shields, or make shields cheaper (So you can afford to pre-empt berthas, in the same way as you do nukes- rather than scrambling to get a shield up when you get shelled).

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 30 Sep 2007, 18:46

LordMatt wrote:Perhaps shields need to be fixed then.

Gee, like I havn't brought that up for the last 5 releases ^^.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 30 Sep 2007, 18:53

@ least now bertha's are a top priority to kill now, maybe send out some bombers =)

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 30 Sep 2007, 21:30

None of the changes in this version outside of the Penetrator, Panther and Reaper seem to have positively affected play, and many - such as the LRPCs and Goliath, seem to have further weakened an already compromised T2 balance.

LOrDo · Post by **LOrDo** » 30 Sep 2007, 21:32

LordMatt wrote:
Complicated wrote:okay ontopic, The LRPC are too accurate, they ended a greenfields game really quickly.
That means the change was a good one and is working properly.

MR.D wrote:Shields don't stop accurate Bertha shots, period. unless you have 2 shields right on top of each other, which is completely cost inefficient.

Old news.
Perhaps shields need to be fixed then.

Gee, only took you a "few" releases and months of complaining to figure that out?
Or are you being sarcastic?...

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 30 Sep 2007, 21:42

Well I don't develop BA and I haven't used a shield in a year or more so I have no idea that they were broken. I don't have any problem with them being a counter to BBs, however BBs should stay accurate, as that allows for strategic option that was not previously present. BBs should still be very bombable however. Also remember that when a unit is OP then use it to beat the other team rather than complaining about it.

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 30 Sep 2007, 23:06

neddiedrow wrote:None of the changes in this version outside of the Penetrator, Panther and Reaper seem to have positively affected play, and many - such as the LRPCs and Goliath, seem to have further weakened an already compromised T2 balance.

Goliath is OP now, you think? Or worthless due to being so slow? Anything else other than those two ('Such as'...)?

Shields werent 'broken', they just dont work in the capacity most people expect them to. Ive detailed dozens of times how to use them correctly and when used in that capacity they're relatively effective. Its a little counter intuitive, not ideal, and isnt an absolute counter, but it can work. However, the more accurate bertha might be able to punch through shields more predictably (Though id be surprised if they can kill it faster than a few nanotowers can heal it). Is that the case, or are people just complaining about what the Bertha does to an un-shielded base?

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 30 Sep 2007, 23:10

Just go play some. The Bertha can currently prevent land assaults, devastate unshielded territory, devastate shielded territory and is considerably cheaper than any counter.

The Goliath seems even less useful than before due to the reduction in mobility.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 30 Sep 2007, 23:13

neddiedrow wrote:Just go play some. The Bertha can currently prevent land assaults, devastate unshielded territory, devastate shielded territory and is considerably cheaper than any counter.

The Goliath seems even less useful than before due to the reduction in mobility.

a Bertha with 4k in metal costs gets killed by 2 hurricanes in one run which costs (1.1K totalcosts)

Goliaths got 300 DPS now with quite a big AoE. build like 3 of them and start owning i would say =)

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 01 Oct 2007, 00:23

neddiedrow wrote:Just go play some. The Bertha can currently prevent land assaults, devastate unshielded territory, devastate shielded territory and is considerably cheaper than any counter.

Perhaps you'll actually need to be scouting your enemy's base and be prepared to counter it. Noize and I determined that six lvl 1 bombers should be enough to kill a bb or timy. That's 780 metal (and if you're playing a team game someone should be going air anyways).

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 01 Oct 2007, 00:28

if bertha spam helps coax people out of epic t2 porc it cant be that much of a bad thing

clumsy_culhane · Post by **clumsy_culhane** » 01 Oct 2007, 01:29

LRPC's increased accuracy has helped alot against ppl just spamming t2 defense mid - late game, so i think its good. Plasma sheilds are fine if u use them properly .. they are good at stopping some of the plasma while u build bombers to take out the cannon..

DemO · Post by **DemO** » 01 Oct 2007, 02:46

The LRPC change should encourage a lot of players (more or less all of them tbh) to start being more thoughtful about their base layout and how they build. Almost every teamgame I play in there are several players who will literally make a big block of fusions/mohos without spacing them or even considering to put them in front of hills so they are harder to bomb/attack with bertha.

Seems like an old habit people brought over from green fields/speedmetal games.

Sure, its not necessarily always fastest to do it that way, but it terms of security it certainly pays in the long run.

Quanto042 · Post by **Quanto042** » 01 Oct 2007, 03:57

wow, this is the most thoughtful discussion i've seen in a long time! Look its good enough that i've actually posted in a BA thread! So yes, i support the Bertha change! Sounds like a lot of ppl are getting a wake up call with this one.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 01 Oct 2007, 04:09

Quanto042 wrote:wow, this is the most thoughtful discussion i've seen in a long time! Look its good enough that i've actually posted in a BA thread! So yes, i support the Bertha change! Sounds like a lot of ppl are getting a wake up call with this one.

Careful, we're considering a few more changes to move things back in the OTA direction.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 01 Oct 2007, 04:54

I'm considering a few more changes in the directions that nobody seems to have explored with this content, namely balance with variation and intra-tier synergy.

Mr.Frumious · Post by **Mr.Frumious** » 01 Oct 2007, 05:25

neddiedrow wrote:I'm considering a few more changes in the directions that nobody seems to have explored with this content, namely balance with variation and intra-tier synergy.

Wasn't that a goal of CA too? CA had a bunch of testing mutes that mixed L1 and L2 to make sure that neither tier was useless, didn't it?

And as for the business of "making it more OTA-like" does that mean wierd crap like super-slow/super-shortranged cans and Zeuses, weak-assed mohos, etc?

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Balanced Annihilation V5.8