The GPL is hopelessly ambiguous in the case of non-code content, so you'll get a different answer to this one depending who you talk to.Warlord Zsinj wrote:I'm curious as to whether, if an element of my mod is GPL'ed, does that instantly mean my artwork is suddenly GPL'ed, and anyone can take it and repackage/do what they please with it, or does that remain my intellectual property, as it is specifically an artwork, rather then a section of code, etc?
Scope of the GPL for mods
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Mr.Frumious
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Forboding Angel
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Oy!
I am tired of this stupid bullshit.
You know what I am making my mod with original content, tons of lua that I didn't write, and various other things, I will be releasing my mod under whatever the fuck I want to release it under. Exactly which one of you is going to hire a lawyer to stop me?
People who contributed (even if they didn't know it) will be duly credited and the world will still turn, but I am not going to have someone tell me what I can and can't do with my mod, mmmk? End of story, period.
I am tired of this stupid bullshit.
You know what I am making my mod with original content, tons of lua that I didn't write, and various other things, I will be releasing my mod under whatever the fuck I want to release it under. Exactly which one of you is going to hire a lawyer to stop me?
People who contributed (even if they didn't know it) will be duly credited and the world will still turn, but I am not going to have someone tell me what I can and can't do with my mod, mmmk? End of story, period.
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Forboding Angel
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Woah woah wait!Forboding Angel wrote:Oy!
I am tired of this stupid bullshit.
You know what I am making my mod with original content, tons of lua that I didn't write, and various other things, I will be releasing my mod under whatever the fuck I want to release it under. Exactly which one of you is going to hire a lawyer to stop me?
People who contributed (even if they didn't know it) will be duly credited and the world will still turn, but I am not going to have someone tell me what I can and can't do with my mod, mmmk? End of story, period.
I thought we just had several long threads on this very issue!
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Forboding Angel
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Nobody will have to hire a lawyer, FSF does those kinds of things for free.
Now when that's out of the way, complying with original licenses in this tiny little world of ours is simply polite. Those tons of Lua you used and didn't write yourself will retain their license no matter what you distribute your stuff under, since that's how it works - except perhaps if the original license allows relicensing to your particular license of choice.
Now when that's out of the way, complying with original licenses in this tiny little world of ours is simply polite. Those tons of Lua you used and didn't write yourself will retain their license no matter what you distribute your stuff under, since that's how it works - except perhaps if the original license allows relicensing to your particular license of choice.
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Mr.Frumious
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Only in real cases - real, actual, financially-damaging cases.imbaczek wrote:Nobody will have to hire a lawyer, FSF does those kinds of things for free.
Now when that's out of the way, complying with original licenses in this tiny little world of ours is simply polite. Those tons of Lua you used and didn't write yourself will retain their license no matter what you distribute your stuff under, since that's how it works - except perhaps if the original license allows relicensing to your particular license of choice.
I've emailed the FSF to just get advice on clarifications of issues before in my own hobby projects, and never gotten an answer, since I made it clear that it was a small, personal hobby project and I was just looking for greater understanding.
They just don't have the resources to deal with people like us. You won't get any attention until, for example, some small private house decides to start selling a version of Kernel Panic on store shelves.
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Forboding Angel
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ORLY?AF wrote: You can argue all you want but in a court of law the judge would side with me. Simply put, saying your content is CC and not stating which of the 6 licenses gives you no legal rights under law, defeating the whole point of saying you have a license to begin with. (Just to be sure I asked a few people nearby in the legal proffession as of writing this and they all agreed).
Ok af, what ever, if you go an look in the feature resource thread I do specify my attribution license. This is the sort of thing you do that pisses people off. whatever dude.smoth wrote:
CREATIVE COMMONS LICENSE
no
Guys, this game isn't on the top 50 games played,[It may be on top 100 >_<] nobody will sue you, and nobody should give a damn, drop this crap that has been going on all these years I've been part of the community. I don't really care What people do with anything I make, they can credit me or not, being that most players know by now what I have made. If you care so much about GPL, complain to them, not on our forums for a great game.
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Felix the Cat
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Re: no
Some people do care what people do with things they make, and that's why it's important.rcdraco wrote:Guys, this game isn't on the top 50 games played,[It may be on top 100 >_<] nobody will sue you, and nobody should give a damn, drop this crap that has been going on all these years I've been part of the community. I don't really care What people do with anything I make, they can credit me or not, being that most players know by now what I have made. If you care so much about GPL, complain to them, not on our forums for a great game.
IMO one problem is that people who, like rcdraco, don't care what people do with what they make and just want credit, and put their stuff under GPL under the impression that this is fitting.
From what I can tell, the CC attribution (vanilla) is one of the least restrictive of the major licenses that still requires people to give credit. That is, it just says that people can use your work however they like, but they need to recognize you as the source. You can make it slightly more restrictive by not allowing commercial use of yours or derivative works.
Of course, if you really don't care, you should just go with a MIT license. Basically it says...take it (program/mod/whatever), use it, do whatever the heck you want with it, claim it as your own, anything... but don't blame me if it breaks and murders your work/computer/firstborn. Granted, I don't think that's really an issue with spring mods, but it's an option.
Of course, if you really don't care, you should just go with a MIT license. Basically it says...take it (program/mod/whatever), use it, do whatever the heck you want with it, claim it as your own, anything... but don't blame me if it breaks and murders your work/computer/firstborn. Granted, I don't think that's really an issue with spring mods, but it's an option.
Creative commons is not a licence, its a non profit organisation, and simply saying that your licence is CC is the same as saying spring uses the Free software licence, or the Disney licence, or the Microsoft licence.
That's my point. There's no need to get all rowdy over it. Its not an opinion I had either, it's hard fact.
If you still insist on fighting me, please have fun dealing with the following paradox and its legal implications:
That's my point. There's no need to get all rowdy over it. Its not an opinion I had either, it's hard fact.
If you still insist on fighting me, please have fun dealing with the following paradox and its legal implications:
AF, smoth never called you wrong, but you're going on and on about a minor point. His actual content has the license very clearly stated, so who cares if smoth wasn't perfectly clear in this topic? 
It's completely off-topic, unlike actually discussing the relative benefits of CC-recommended licenses.
So AF, you think a mod is a package rather than an aggregate?
EDIT: wait, I can't find a single mention of package in the GPL. Can you use the same terms as the actual license please?
It's completely off-topic, unlike actually discussing the relative benefits of CC-recommended licenses.So AF, you think a mod is a package rather than an aggregate?
EDIT: wait, I can't find a single mention of package in the GPL. Can you use the same terms as the actual license please?
Why the hell does ANYONE CARE...
God for a free project we are all so god darn caught up in the freaking legal implications of everything. Jesus people, this is like GPLing your freaking D&D campaigne setting.
WE are working on content for a free game, most of the modders are making stuff mostly for themselves, but are willing to share with others, so that hopefully alot of people can enjoy the experience. You would think in a setting like that there would be practically no animosity, no bickering, and certainly no complicated discussions of legal issues.
Yet this community is rife with sects/factions groups of people who get extremely pissed off when someone counters their views.. We have people badmouthing mods and other things all over the place. Playing a certain mod is like rooting for a certain sports team, you have to be careful where you mention it or you get verbal abuse. WHY is this.. were not in a competition, there is no goal here except fun.. you dont win anything if your mod is popular, or your content cool and refreshing. NO money is to be had or made. What are we arguing about, the legal ramifications of someone stealing FREE content from a FREE game.. and how we can protect ourselves.. GUESS WHAT PEOPLE we cant, everyone here should realize right now that given the nature of the internets if someone wants to pirate/steal/copy/warez or what have you a piece of software no one is really going to be able to stop them, unless they go out and publicise it.
We cannot stop people from borrowing, stealing, or taking content, we can ask for people to give credit, we can shun those who would not do so. But really we cant stop them, not physically. All this GPL/Licenceing nonsense accomplishes is to give people who want to share and help a serious headache. Because instead of just being able to give crap away with little asking in return we have hamstrung ourselves will all sorts of red tape and licencing issues. WHY.. why the hell does it matter so much.. I mean I dont want to get anyone down, but the only really serious issue we could ever have is legal call down from an actual company, either about us using their content, or about them stealing our content. But for the love of peet people lets not kid ourselves, there is NOTHING in the entirety of the spring community content, or codewise, that an actual company would even consider stealing. There is also no way in hell that a small time company could take it and make a breakthrough into the market and compete with professional hype and competition.
So springs legal worries come down to.. we might get a cease and decist for using other peoples content.. well thats simple to solve.. minimize the use of other peoples content.. Other than that, we really need to get our heads out of our collective asses here and realize this is all for fun, not a competition, and honestly even the best stuff we make is still just hobby work. We are not hotshots.. the work weve done here is cool, but its still just a hobby and lets stop being so freaking serious about all this crap...
God for a free project we are all so god darn caught up in the freaking legal implications of everything. Jesus people, this is like GPLing your freaking D&D campaigne setting.
WE are working on content for a free game, most of the modders are making stuff mostly for themselves, but are willing to share with others, so that hopefully alot of people can enjoy the experience. You would think in a setting like that there would be practically no animosity, no bickering, and certainly no complicated discussions of legal issues.
Yet this community is rife with sects/factions groups of people who get extremely pissed off when someone counters their views.. We have people badmouthing mods and other things all over the place. Playing a certain mod is like rooting for a certain sports team, you have to be careful where you mention it or you get verbal abuse. WHY is this.. were not in a competition, there is no goal here except fun.. you dont win anything if your mod is popular, or your content cool and refreshing. NO money is to be had or made. What are we arguing about, the legal ramifications of someone stealing FREE content from a FREE game.. and how we can protect ourselves.. GUESS WHAT PEOPLE we cant, everyone here should realize right now that given the nature of the internets if someone wants to pirate/steal/copy/warez or what have you a piece of software no one is really going to be able to stop them, unless they go out and publicise it.
We cannot stop people from borrowing, stealing, or taking content, we can ask for people to give credit, we can shun those who would not do so. But really we cant stop them, not physically. All this GPL/Licenceing nonsense accomplishes is to give people who want to share and help a serious headache. Because instead of just being able to give crap away with little asking in return we have hamstrung ourselves will all sorts of red tape and licencing issues. WHY.. why the hell does it matter so much.. I mean I dont want to get anyone down, but the only really serious issue we could ever have is legal call down from an actual company, either about us using their content, or about them stealing our content. But for the love of peet people lets not kid ourselves, there is NOTHING in the entirety of the spring community content, or codewise, that an actual company would even consider stealing. There is also no way in hell that a small time company could take it and make a breakthrough into the market and compete with professional hype and competition.
So springs legal worries come down to.. we might get a cease and decist for using other peoples content.. well thats simple to solve.. minimize the use of other peoples content.. Other than that, we really need to get our heads out of our collective asses here and realize this is all for fun, not a competition, and honestly even the best stuff we make is still just hobby work. We are not hotshots.. the work weve done here is cool, but its still just a hobby and lets stop being so freaking serious about all this crap...
God for a free project we are all so god darn caught up in the freaking legal implications of everything. Jesus people, this is like GPLing your freaking D&D campaigne setting.
ITS MY D&D WORK I SPENT COUNTLESS OF MINUTES SETTING IT UP AND YOU AINT GONNA STEAL IT OR ILL GET THE LAWYERS ON YOUR SORRY ASS
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Forboding Angel
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Ye better watch out, I've already seen Neddie take action. I do indeed lurk these forums all day. I also post ocasionally, but I generally tend to just watch and listen, because I do not like talking much on forums, and, for that matter, it made me talk a LOT less IRL, too. I generally think long and hard about what I am going to say, or I don't say anything at all. Why? Avoiding drama.
On the whole of this issue. I believe people shouldn't steal, but I mean, what the fuck can we do if they do..? Nothing, exactly. Might as well just drop it. We can hope they give us credit when they do jack our shit, but I mean... We don't have anything to fight back with, except locking their mods down and making sites disable them for DLs.
On the whole of this issue. I believe people shouldn't steal, but I mean, what the fuck can we do if they do..? Nothing, exactly. Might as well just drop it. We can hope they give us credit when they do jack our shit, but I mean... We don't have anything to fight back with, except locking their mods down and making sites disable them for DLs.
Last edited by Snipawolf on 29 Sep 2007, 03:06, edited 2 times in total.