In the West, it is a little better, but you still have to toe the line or end up off a short pier.smoth wrote:the only thing I can trying to talk to others about it. However, in the south most of what I hear is religious sentimentality that the Israelis have all the right to be there because of some religious nonsense.
Are terrorists THAT stupid?
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Terrorists are not a single organized entity. Most groups are very small counting just dozen or few dozen members and acting independently with only some sporadic contact with other groups with similar agenda.
Also any increased communication activity probably alerts security services.
For these reasons, it's impossible for such groups to stage large scale attack requiring forces of thousands of people spread across large area in foreign country.
It's simply impossible for them.
Also damaging some petrol station scares people less than hitting high density target (airport, subway, marketplace) or damaging symbols of country (attacking goverment buildings etc.)
Also any increased communication activity probably alerts security services.
For these reasons, it's impossible for such groups to stage large scale attack requiring forces of thousands of people spread across large area in foreign country.
It's simply impossible for them.
Also damaging some petrol station scares people less than hitting high density target (airport, subway, marketplace) or damaging symbols of country (attacking goverment buildings etc.)
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BlackLiger
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 21:58
Want to know the way they could hit the US, and the entire west, really fucking hard?
(yes, I've devoted serious thought to this. Video game developer. Good storylines are findable in the "OH NOES TERRORISTS" plotline at the moment.)
Dirty Bomb the oil fields in saudi and co. Not even a nuke as such, just something that'll irradiate the area for a good 40 to 50 years.
Oh shit, there goes the west's oil based economy. Thus, there goes our advanced technology. Thus, there goes out all American involvement in the Middle East.
Reason they don't do it? MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. Even if the detonation of a dirty bomb in the oilfields DIDN'T start a nuclear war, they'd still loose as much as we would. Their economy in the area is ALSO centered upon oil, and with the radiation issue much closer to home.
(yes, I've devoted serious thought to this. Video game developer. Good storylines are findable in the "OH NOES TERRORISTS" plotline at the moment.)
Dirty Bomb the oil fields in saudi and co. Not even a nuke as such, just something that'll irradiate the area for a good 40 to 50 years.
Oh shit, there goes the west's oil based economy. Thus, there goes our advanced technology. Thus, there goes out all American involvement in the Middle East.
Reason they don't do it? MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. Even if the detonation of a dirty bomb in the oilfields DIDN'T start a nuclear war, they'd still loose as much as we would. Their economy in the area is ALSO centered upon oil, and with the radiation issue much closer to home.
Re: Are terrorists THAT stupid?
Why the hell would they go for the gas? That's how they make money.
How about the powerplants? Blasting the powerplants of the most important citys would cause limitless chaos! :)
I dont think Israel should be blamed since their religion tells em thats the place they must live. They lived there long ago, have been conquered and kicked out by the romans and then returned then they got the chance.
I dont think Israel should be blamed since their religion tells em thats the place they must live. They lived there long ago, have been conquered and kicked out by the romans and then returned then they got the chance.
Realise that the world isn't run by people who plan stuff "hmm lets see how should we hurt the US and lets go trough with it". It's run by lazy dumb idiots everywhere and nothing much ever gets done. From a distance it probably looks about as intelligent as ants, or worse.
Wich is probably just as well.
Wich is probably just as well.
terrorists ain't stupid ..
just take a look at the laws created after those attacks every time ..
everyone calls for security .. but the more you want security the more you have to sacrifice freedom. this is a fact. to gain total security you need total control over anyone at anytime..
first of all you need a database with everyone registered within (most countries have this - if not officially then the security agenceys creates this).
You do know what happened every time a global database was constructed? No? Here are some examples:
- Estonia created a register after WWI. When hitler occupied it exactly the same register was used to internate all jews ..
- Japan got a register in WWII .. After the Americans conquered the country they imprisioned every "soldier" according to this lists.
- The most successful register was established by the german domocratic republic (DDR, til '89). They had records of everyone (what they like, whom they meet, what they talk about, who send them mail with what written in it?) to prevent anti-communistic movements, protests and so on ..
notice that all three databases worked on plain paper. they didn't use computers of any kind. look at pages like myspace.. you always have a friend who knows someone, who is related to someone being a potential terrorist.. (note: there exists a theory that if you know someone who knows s/o and so on, you need just about 7 people in this chain and you know the whole world..)
--
back to topic: everytime a "terrorist thread" is discovered then the government tries to push laws fors security. "Its just a tomporary thing. We take it back as soon as the danger is over." - They do not.
Most of the western "democracys" behave like totalitary regiemes. Just take a look at London. There is a CCTV-cam about every 10 meters. Can they prevent crimes? No.
Its just plain stupid to think that terrorists care about that kind of security. They even got their passports with it as they bombed the Londen Underground.. (btw: that were british people. Born and grown up in the UK. Not people from iraq, afghanistan or so.)
Or another great anti-terrorist-law planned by a german minister: a governmentary online-searching of your computer by some trojan created from the BKA (highest german police).
Even experts think that this won't stop any terrorist. They know how to use encryption and so on. But wait! If we install it anyway we can easily search for copyright-violition, child-porn, or sth. else. And if we don't find anything we can upload such data (hey! they install a trojan!) und then send people to jail.
Or another example: they wand to use the Bundeswehr (=german army) in the country to do police-like tasks. This is strictly forbidden by the german Grundgesetz (=constitution). The last times a german state did that the following happend:
- Bismarck (the last german emperor) used the army to shoot everyone who protested against him after the lost WWI. (Thank god the army refused to execute this order.)
- The sowjet union used the army to prevent demonstrations in the DDR (man .. they even shot down many people demonstrating peacefully..)
If anyone asks me what I fear most: my own government. And i'm not alone. Many people here feel the same.
We don't fear any terrorists. What do they do.. its bad, truely. But on the oter hand: more than 5000 people are killed in car accidents every year. In the US every year over 10.000 people are killed by weapons accidentally ..
The risk to be on the same plane with a terrorist is so damn low - i don't understand why everyone fears it. Every year more planes crash than are hijacked by terrorists.
I really wouldn't call this "danger". Its just the risk of life. If you get cancer do you blame the cigarrete-industry? the "wrong" food? the terrorists? Man you got to live with that.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)
Just my 2 (euro!-)cent about this ..
ps: if i were a terrorist and want to dstroy america i'd do nothin. With those political leaders and that bad economy they just need theirself to get destroyed. If you got stocks: sell it. If you got financial backup in Dollars: sell it. Invest in sth. like gold, silver,.. or in euro.
the wall street will crash soon (i suppose this year. if then the beginning of the next). Your economy needs the export to china. And chinas economy is much overheated. like the japanese was in the late '80s.
(its not mee saying this, but the Chief strategy guy at the Bank Bruxelles. He had foreseen the last stock-crash. not by emotion but by plain analysing the situation.)
traslated from http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article9715 ... _Fall.html:
just take a look at the laws created after those attacks every time ..
everyone calls for security .. but the more you want security the more you have to sacrifice freedom. this is a fact. to gain total security you need total control over anyone at anytime..
first of all you need a database with everyone registered within (most countries have this - if not officially then the security agenceys creates this).
You do know what happened every time a global database was constructed? No? Here are some examples:
- Estonia created a register after WWI. When hitler occupied it exactly the same register was used to internate all jews ..
- Japan got a register in WWII .. After the Americans conquered the country they imprisioned every "soldier" according to this lists.
- The most successful register was established by the german domocratic republic (DDR, til '89). They had records of everyone (what they like, whom they meet, what they talk about, who send them mail with what written in it?) to prevent anti-communistic movements, protests and so on ..
notice that all three databases worked on plain paper. they didn't use computers of any kind. look at pages like myspace.. you always have a friend who knows someone, who is related to someone being a potential terrorist.. (note: there exists a theory that if you know someone who knows s/o and so on, you need just about 7 people in this chain and you know the whole world..)
--
back to topic: everytime a "terrorist thread" is discovered then the government tries to push laws fors security. "Its just a tomporary thing. We take it back as soon as the danger is over." - They do not.
Most of the western "democracys" behave like totalitary regiemes. Just take a look at London. There is a CCTV-cam about every 10 meters. Can they prevent crimes? No.
Its just plain stupid to think that terrorists care about that kind of security. They even got their passports with it as they bombed the Londen Underground.. (btw: that were british people. Born and grown up in the UK. Not people from iraq, afghanistan or so.)
Or another great anti-terrorist-law planned by a german minister: a governmentary online-searching of your computer by some trojan created from the BKA (highest german police).
Even experts think that this won't stop any terrorist. They know how to use encryption and so on. But wait! If we install it anyway we can easily search for copyright-violition, child-porn, or sth. else. And if we don't find anything we can upload such data (hey! they install a trojan!) und then send people to jail.
Or another example: they wand to use the Bundeswehr (=german army) in the country to do police-like tasks. This is strictly forbidden by the german Grundgesetz (=constitution). The last times a german state did that the following happend:
- Bismarck (the last german emperor) used the army to shoot everyone who protested against him after the lost WWI. (Thank god the army refused to execute this order.)
- The sowjet union used the army to prevent demonstrations in the DDR (man .. they even shot down many people demonstrating peacefully..)
If anyone asks me what I fear most: my own government. And i'm not alone. Many people here feel the same.
We don't fear any terrorists. What do they do.. its bad, truely. But on the oter hand: more than 5000 people are killed in car accidents every year. In the US every year over 10.000 people are killed by weapons accidentally ..
The risk to be on the same plane with a terrorist is so damn low - i don't understand why everyone fears it. Every year more planes crash than are hijacked by terrorists.
I really wouldn't call this "danger". Its just the risk of life. If you get cancer do you blame the cigarrete-industry? the "wrong" food? the terrorists? Man you got to live with that.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)
Just my 2 (euro!-)cent about this ..
ps: if i were a terrorist and want to dstroy america i'd do nothin. With those political leaders and that bad economy they just need theirself to get destroyed. If you got stocks: sell it. If you got financial backup in Dollars: sell it. Invest in sth. like gold, silver,.. or in euro.
the wall street will crash soon (i suppose this year. if then the beginning of the next). Your economy needs the export to china. And chinas economy is much overheated. like the japanese was in the late '80s.
(its not mee saying this, but the Chief strategy guy at the Bank Bruxelles. He had foreseen the last stock-crash. not by emotion but by plain analysing the situation.)
traslated from http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article9715 ... _Fall.html:
(i hope i made not too much translition errors.)WELT ONLINE: What it lacks is there is no euphoria at the market. Without it the stocks never crashed back in time.
Leuschel: Sure there is. I measure euphoria not in term of what people say on the street or at parties, but in how they act. In the US are so many stocks bought on loan like in other euphoria phases. 1.8 percent of the marketmoney of all US-stocks are financed over loans, that are about 340 billion euro. This quote is higher than 1987 and even higher than in the beginning of 2000 being at 1.3%. The long-year-average is aboit 0.6 to 0.7. This quota was before the crash 1929 as high as today. With all it rea-economic consequences.
Wouldn't work. Dirty bombs aren't actually dangerous (they produce way too little radiation), they just cause a frenzy because of "OMG NUKULAR!". I bet those oil fields have more radiation from US ammunition or the Chernobyl desaster than they'd get from dirty bombs. If theres valuable material in the aera and perhaps a corporation ruthless enough to sacrifice people (keep in mind how many people are killed due to the hazards of oil extraction and illegal tactics of the oil companies in Africa) they'll just go in there and keep mining, dirty bombs only prevent selling houses in the area to squeamish westerners.BlackLiger wrote:Want to know the way they could hit the US, and the entire west, really fucking hard?
(yes, I've devoted serious thought to this. Video game developer. Good storylines are findable in the "OH NOES TERRORISTS" plotline at the moment.)
Dirty Bomb the oil fields in saudi and co. Not even a nuke as such, just something that'll irradiate the area for a good 40 to 50 years.
Oh shit, there goes the west's oil based economy. Thus, there goes our advanced technology. Thus, there goes out all American involvement in the Middle East.
Reason they don't do it? MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. Even if the detonation of a dirty bomb in the oilfields DIDN'T start a nuclear war, they'd still loose as much as we would. Their economy in the area is ALSO centered upon oil, and with the radiation issue much closer to home.
The problem of freedom is that it enters conflict with hinself, I mean, the more freedom one person haves the less freedom the other people have. So I will conquer the world and get all freedom for myself! :)
What I find the stranger is that terrorists didnt tried to kill Bush yet. He is brainless core of the whole thing, and even with him having more bodyguards than years of life I think they would be able to it with a really smart plan.
What I find the stranger is that terrorists didnt tried to kill Bush yet. He is brainless core of the whole thing, and even with him having more bodyguards than years of life I think they would be able to it with a really smart plan.
Bush is a valuable helper. By enacting new "anti-terror" laws and spreading even more frear of terrorists he amplifies the damage the terrorists themselves do.manored wrote:The problem of freedom is that it enters conflict with hinself, I mean, the more freedom one person haves the less freedom the other people have. So I will conquer the world and get all freedom for myself! :)
What I find the stranger is that terrorists didnt tried to kill Bush yet. He is brainless core of the whole thing, and even with him having more bodyguards than years of life I think they would be able to it with a really smart plan.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
Well, let's start with why they would attack shops, or gas stations, or supermarkets or elementary schools or anything else both common and vulnerable.Sleksa wrote:why not just attack pentagon/white house with the 1000 terrorists instead of shops?
Generally, terrorists want to, well, create terror. Said terror generally has a purpose - to achieve some political goal through frightening the civilian population into accepting it. Terrorists want to make the population in general feel insecure, feel threatened, feel afraid. Attacking the Pentagon, or the White House, or even the World Trade Center does not achieve that, for the simple reason that the average American has never been to, and will never be inside of, any of those buildings. To the average American, it is horrible that the WTC attacks happened, and it would be horrible if the White House were to be bombed, but those things fundamentally happen to other people - to "them", not to "us".
However, the average American goes to average American public places fairly often. To the gas station; to drop the kids off at school; to buy groceries at the supermarket. By striking at these places, terrorists would move beyond striking at "them" and would strike at "us". Every American would have reason to fear. If terrorists bombed five random supermarkets per day in different parts of the country with simple home-made timed bombs, every American has reason to fear going to the supermarket, because the one they are about to visit may be next.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
In theory that works.Zoombie wrote:There fore, the best way for you to thwart terrorists from your own home is to give them a collective, "Fuck you" and continue to live your life happy, healthy and unafraid.
NOTE: I mean "you" as in you people who are not able to actively fight terrorism in more direct ways.
In practice, nobody wants to be faced with a situation in which their next trip to the gas station may be their last. Very few people want to be martyrs. Think about the Washington snipers back in... 2002? The best way to thwart them may have been for parents to keep sending their children to school, unafraid. In reality, many parents kept their children home until the snipers were caught.
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CalledGothic
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 17:34
