Starcraft 2

[smoth]

I look elsewhere to steal ocassional idears :)

[luckywaldo7]

I remember reading that the engine is capable of zooming out, but they decided it would damage gameplay and unit recognition

They mean it would damage their sc1 playerbase transition to sc2.

[Hobo Joe]

People can look at more than one thing at the same time omg waaaahhh my old protactics are broken i'll actually have to improvise and use strategy!


E: i mean look up new builds and counters online

[Caydr]

New strategy: Use two SC2 units instead of one SC1 unit for situation A, and one SC2 unit instead of two SC1 units for situation B. Straggedy!

I've really gotta make a game one of these years. I'll call it "Caydr Sodomizes Blizzard's Entire Development Team In An Afternoon Of Brainstorming And Coffee".

[BaNa]

I'm happy they kept SC1 gameplay in a lot of parts, there was no need to change it, there is a reason we played sc1 for more than 10 years.

[Caydr]

SC1 undeniably has a lot of good parts. What I take issue with is changing things just for the sake of justifying the development time, rather than there being an immediately-apparent gameplay reason for it.

Like I said, Wraiths and Goliaths: gone. Instead you get a transformer that does both jobs but only one at a time. Ok, so one instead of two... on a small unit roster to begin with... but maybe they're aiming for simplicity. Understandable. Except that now there's a whole class of units that are "armored" in addition to regular ones, and all weapons deal two types of damage, normal and armored. And now you have special units that are mainly for anti-armor damage... so you need to use two ground units where you might have only used one before. Whaaaat? An entire new damage class, a doubling of the number of ground units just to satisfy this new gameplay mechanic, and now there's no medics or transports but instead a medic-transport. WHAAT? It's like they just put a bunch of unit types in a hat and pulled out two at a time to make their design decisions.

You can't do things to make the game simpler and then make things twice as complicated, and then make them simpler again, but twice as complicated, and then shit it out and call it a sequel.

Surely I'm just missing the bigger picture. But at the same time, I maintain that I could've made a better game by drawing shapes in a puddle of puke.

[Hobo Joe]

I'm happy they kept SC1 gameplay in a lot of parts, there was no need to change it, there is a reason we played sc1 for more than 10 years.

Yes but the real question is, if they're just going to keep the gameplay, why make a sequel?



oh right cash cow woop woop

[BaNa]

pulling the medic and transport together was a stroke of genius imo, as it makes drops more common (you will always have a dropship near marines) and marine drops more simple.

As for why make a sequel, i do not understand. Why make this game or why make the next ones with protoss/zerg single player?

I totally get why, the guys are blizzard are smart enough to see that people who prefer single player like many different unit types, a bit of sim city, a bit of rpg, while people who prefer multi like the existing structure and balance.

[Google_Frog]

Caydr are you aware that sc1 has a much more complex armour system? I did not know it was there so I think the simpler and much much more visual armour system in sc2 is a point towards it.

[scifi]

tbh, the RTS world required a game like starcraft 2

there wasnt a single competitive RTS, that had so many people playing it.

There was for a while C&C 3

But starcraft 2 got the huge player base that is RTS gaming, its a unfinished game, loved the beta more than the oficial version though.

The beta had a better balance, stuff didnt died as fast, i actualy prefered zerg roach, hidra balance (they were more powerfull, but more costy).

I dislike zealot increased build time (lame ass developers).
i dislike why they removed imortal range upgrade

they increased the battle speed, its stupid, in sc1 you had a lot more battles and a lot more killing than in sc2.

In sc2 the game is more like a small battle, in sc1 you had a lot more strategic depth.

[luckywaldo7]

If this was added to SC2 (not as a mod/hack) I would start playing it again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVoJAMUIhIo

[Machete234]

If this was added to SC2 (not as a mod/hack) I would start playing it again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVoJAMUIhIo

Lol I need to install a french client

But the zoom works great and you can distinguish all the units, so its total crap what blizzard said.
They just dont want to piss off the e-sport japs.

[Gota]

I'm happy they kept SC1 gameplay in a lot of parts, there was no need to change it, there is a reason we played sc1 for more than 10 years.

Yes but the real question is, if they're just going to keep the gameplay, why make a sequel?



oh right cash cow woop woop

Ehh duuh...
Thats what sequals are in most cases.In starcraft 2's case its even more so.

[SwiftSpear]

SC1 undeniably has a lot of good parts. What I take issue with is changing things just for the sake of justifying the development time, rather than there being an immediately-apparent gameplay reason for it.

Like I said, Wraiths and Goliaths: gone. Instead you get a transformer that does both jobs but only one at a time. Ok, so one instead of two... on a small unit roster to begin with... but maybe they're aiming for simplicity. Understandable. Except that now there's a whole class of units that are "armored" in addition to regular ones, and all weapons deal two types of damage, normal and armored. And now you have special units that are mainly for anti-armor damage... so you need to use two ground units where you might have only used one before. Whaaaat? An entire new damage class, a doubling of the number of ground units just to satisfy this new gameplay mechanic, and now there's no medics or transports but instead a medic-transport. WHAAT? It's like they just put a bunch of unit types in a hat and pulled out two at a time to make their design decisions.

You can't do things to make the game simpler and then make things twice as complicated, and then make them simpler again, but twice as complicated, and then shit it out and call it a sequel.

Surely I'm just missing the bigger picture. But at the same time, I maintain that I could've made a better game by drawing shapes in a puddle of puke.

I can't speak for how much gameplay design time was put into the specifications for any given unit in SC2. But "has a minigun" and "has a missle attack" does not equate to "replaces wraiths and Goliaths". Goliaths were a strong long range antiair, wraiths were a virtually useless cloak attack vehical with some limited antiair capability. Vikings are slow but long range air based anti air with harassment capabilities. They have very little in common in unit role.

So ya, starcraft 2 has created a revolution in e-sports, despite the business side of blizzard doing everything they can to screw it up. Apparently the game is only just the strongest competitive RTS ever, as decided by anyone who is any good at playing RTS games. No biggie or anything. Ya, zoom would make everything much better, for sure. Just throw engine features into a game, it always improves quality definitely for sure 100%

[Gota]

Ya, zoom would make everything much better, for sure. Just throw engine features into a game, it always improves quality definitely for sure 100%

That's Spring's mantra...
If its possible,stick it in...At least for the majority of the TA crowed..

[luckywaldo7]

So ya, starcraft 2 has created a revolution in e-sports, despite the business side of blizzard doing everything they can to screw it up. Apparently the game is only just the strongest competitive RTS ever, as decided by anyone who is any good at playing RTS games. No biggie or anything.

Marketing, Swift, marketing.

[Johannes]

Apparently the game is only just the strongest competitive RTS ever, as decided by anyone who is any good at playing RTS games.

Strongest in what sense? Biggest playerbase atm maybe but that's it. SCBW professional scene is bigger for the time being at least, and the gameplay elements themself don't make the game any more competitive than any decently made RTS. It might be good enough gameplay-wise to sustain pro scene for a while, but that's nothing special, many games could do the same given the chance.

Even if it eventually gets bigger than SCBW, that alone doesn't mean it's the strongest competitive game ever when comparing to a game with 10+ years of professional play. Don't think SC2 will have appeal like that, it'll be replaced by something else much sooner.

[scifi]

currently there isnt any new RTS that is up to replace SC2 in the competitive scene, so we are stucked rigth now with it

supcom dream died

games like company of heroes or huge space games like homeworld, didnt get the apeal they deserved, or even sins of a solar empire.

c&c is dead as well

So whats in it for the RTS future i dont see any new good looking RTS out there, (except open source).

[SwiftSpear]

So ya, starcraft 2 has created a revolution in e-sports, despite the business side of blizzard doing everything they can to screw it up. Apparently the game is only just the strongest competitive RTS ever, as decided by anyone who is any good at playing RTS games. No biggie or anything.

Marketing, Swift, marketing.

Did dick all. Every competitive player went into the game expecting not to like it as much as starcraft. Most of them switched over from that pretty quick.

[luckywaldo7]

Because they were worried they would have to relearn how to play again? Surprise! Its only Starcraft 1.5, nothing really needed to relearn. Guess its fine after all.

In the end, yet another rts game not meeting up to full potential, and yet another cash cow for Blizzard.

This is why FPS is sooo far ahead of RTS. Developers shamelessly rip off good ideas from each other to make them better and better. Commercial RTS is pretty stagnant. That is why, even though Starcraft 2 is a far better game then Supcom 2, I actually respect Supcom 2 more for their efforts into trying to make the game and genre better, even if they mostly failed at it.