Aww, dont reduce the range of nanos, thats why i build them, they have long range.
They should be as they are now, but perhaps less buildtime.
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But what if we could have also level2 nanotower?
Absolute Annihilation 2.11
Moderator: Moderators
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Foxomaniac
- Posts: 691
- Joined: 18 Jan 2006, 16:59
Foxomaniac wrote:Spawn a krog, it seems to give teh error.
No error for me. I'll try messing around a bit...
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I tried a raw .73 build without my texture fixes, just in case that did it somehow, but still no error.
Next I'll try it in .72. Maybe the way missing textures are handled has changed or something.
So Quantum and I just gave the 2.2 sea balance a quick playtest, and in general, I think it is very good. Torpedo launchers are very overpowered vs subs, however, to the point that subs really aren't worth building. A ~600metal sub dies to a 300m torp launcher in 3 hits (barely scratching the torp). If the sub and torp launch came out about even, then I think the balance would be more approprate. Thus, for ~600 metal, you could have two torp launchers or 1 sub, and the launchers will still kill a sub easily. If a sub encounters a torp launcher all by itself, however, micro should be enough to take it down, in my opinion.
Also, as I have said before, I think that subs' torpedos need to have a speed increase (like the torp launchers have), and do more damage to torp launchers. Alternatively, torp lanuchers need a cost increase.
Also, subs don't seem to leave wreaks (they did this fairly often in OTA). The player who kills a sub ought to have the reward of reclaiming it.
Finally, it appeared that the water level that you could fire your com's laser, and the level you could fire the dgun were not the same.
Also, as I have said before, I think that subs' torpedos need to have a speed increase (like the torp launchers have), and do more damage to torp launchers. Alternatively, torp lanuchers need a cost increase.
Also, subs don't seem to leave wreaks (they did this fairly often in OTA). The player who kills a sub ought to have the reward of reclaiming it.
Finally, it appeared that the water level that you could fire your com's laser, and the level you could fire the dgun were not the same.
doesnt work when there's > 1Foxomaniac wrote:Mavs only rock if they are microd, they die to defenses.
Plus, to kill mavs w/ T1 = corner the mav where he can't escape.
4 mavs as t2 if your enemy is t1 means you win.
I've a million replays to show this, where I have > 100 t1 units and its impossible to even dent the mavs, cos you can't get in range to corner the fucker, since they run too fast.
slower speed + less range would still make them good, but less hard to deal with.
yes, actually.Caydr wrote:Yeah, I know all about its messy script
No idea at all how to fix it though. I could send it to Archangel, but I don't want to give him too much work to do. I already ask him for scripting help pretty often... and I'm not sure how much work would be involved in fixing a walk script.
Basically, as long as the unit functions, I don't think I'm going to worry about it.
Anyone agree with this? I'm willing to make the change.krogothe wrote:IMO give nanos:
- 3x costs
- 2x buildtime
- 3x hp
- 5x buildpower
- 0.5x range
- 1.5x size increase
nanotowers are cool as a unit, having to build les of them would make less lag, and easier to damage an enemy using them as production boosts.
not to mention they'd be useless at repairing stuffSoulless1 wrote:I'd say do that, but keep the range as-is (maybe increase cost a little more to compensate) cos halving the range would mean that, as an immobile unit, they'd *much* less useful cos they'd only cover a quarter of the area they do now...
lvl-1 subs IMO should be
Same range as floating lvl1 torp launcher.
Same damages/weapon
Very close in HP, but floating lvl1 defence should win vs 1 sub (lvl1 launcher has small Hp left), lvl1 launcher loses vs 2 subs(chance for both subs to live).
Requires a 2-1 ratio to destroy, basic similar principle used with rockos vs llt.
Costs should be averaged as well, so that 1 sub costs same as 1 floating torp launcher?
Same range as floating lvl1 torp launcher.
Same damages/weapon
Very close in HP, but floating lvl1 defence should win vs 1 sub (lvl1 launcher has small Hp left), lvl1 launcher loses vs 2 subs(chance for both subs to live).
Requires a 2-1 ratio to destroy, basic similar principle used with rockos vs llt.
Costs should be averaged as well, so that 1 sub costs same as 1 floating torp launcher?
All this "nerf torp launchers v. subs" talk is just bewildering. Doesn't anyone remember the original purpose of subs? Subs kill boats. Torp launchers kill subs. Boats kill torp launchers. Attacking torp launchers with subs is like using your gunships to attack flak cannons.
Want to kill torpedo launchers at L1? Build a destroyer.
Mr. D's version is the funniest: make subs into submersed, mobile torpedo launchers. So, as a player, I have two choices. If I want a submersed, mobile torpedo launcher, I'll build a sub. If my parents dropped me on the head as a child, I'll build the surface-targettable, non-mobile torpedo launcher.
Want to kill torpedo launchers at L1? Build a destroyer.
Mr. D's version is the funniest: make subs into submersed, mobile torpedo launchers. So, as a player, I have two choices. If I want a submersed, mobile torpedo launcher, I'll build a sub. If my parents dropped me on the head as a child, I'll build the surface-targettable, non-mobile torpedo launcher.
+1Pxtl wrote:Mr. D's version is the funniest: make subs into submersed, mobile torpedo launchers. So, as a player, I have two choices. If I want a submersed, mobile torpedo launcher, I'll build a sub. If my parents dropped me on the head as a child, I'll build the surface-targettable, non-mobile torpedo launcher.
Brains win... Everytime!
Have you guys actually playtested AA 2.2 Beta, or are you just talking out of your asses?
Subs vs destroyer, the sub dies in two hits from the depth charge. Why on earth would you ever build subs, if you can't effectively assult any fleet with a single destroyer, or any base with even a single torp launcher. Might as well remove subs from the game, as for 600 metal, you need a unit that can do more than attack skeets and corvettes.
And just to be crystal clear: In the proposal I made above, a subs worth of metal in torp launchers would still kill subs easily, however a sub could take on a single torp launcher if it were microed. Also, I think a sub and a destroyer should be evenly matched. As it stands now, subs will never be built and destroyers will be the only viable method of assult after the first torp launcher is up.
Edit: And for the person who made the flak analogy: a brawler costs ~300 metal and ~5800 energy, where as a flak cannon costs ~800 metal and 17000 energy. At that price, it had better be very effective against a few brawlers.
Subs vs destroyer, the sub dies in two hits from the depth charge. Why on earth would you ever build subs, if you can't effectively assult any fleet with a single destroyer, or any base with even a single torp launcher. Might as well remove subs from the game, as for 600 metal, you need a unit that can do more than attack skeets and corvettes.
And just to be crystal clear: In the proposal I made above, a subs worth of metal in torp launchers would still kill subs easily, however a sub could take on a single torp launcher if it were microed. Also, I think a sub and a destroyer should be evenly matched. As it stands now, subs will never be built and destroyers will be the only viable method of assult after the first torp launcher is up.
Edit: And for the person who made the flak analogy: a brawler costs ~300 metal and ~5800 energy, where as a flak cannon costs ~800 metal and 17000 energy. At that price, it had better be very effective against a few brawlers.
Icky. Imho, I liked the older AA L1 naval balance before the tweaking went into high gear. The structure was pretty simple: subs kill all boats. They have trouble with Destroyers, but tend to win anyways. However, torpedo launchers kill subs. So, you use your torp launchers to mark territory, and your subs to control the open water... the catch is that subs are slow, so often you can simply work around the existense of the subs and just claim territory with torp launchers - which is where the destroyers come in. The support hovers would've complimented that system perfectly if they'd been implemented earlier (and their deptchcharges weren't so powerful).
The problem with the L1 balance was primarily the early rush... which Caydr solved by making the torp-launchers a cheaper option.
The problem with the L1 balance was primarily the early rush... which Caydr solved by making the torp-launchers a cheaper option.
You still need to win the first sea battle against a good player, otherwise you will be knocked out of the water. Torpedo launchers don't really change that, they just require destroyers to do the job, rather than just skeets, so it slows the process down a little bit. I think the balance between the other units is pretty good right now, just subs have no place in it.
Also a few of other things:
1. The radar range nerf changes gameplay significantly on a map like comet catcher. I think it is a bit much. Maybe half of the nerf would be sufficent. As it is, you have to build A LOT of radar to get good coverage.
2. Mavs aren't mavs anymore with the new weapon
One of the coolest things about mavs was their very accurate fast gauss cannons. They just aren't the same without them (regardless of the whether or not they do the job).
3. When you tell the com to dgun, sometimes he hangs up a bit before he does it. I don't know if this is a script issue or an engine issue, but it happened multiple times to me, and to other players when we were playtesting and it is very annoying.
Also a few of other things:
1. The radar range nerf changes gameplay significantly on a map like comet catcher. I think it is a bit much. Maybe half of the nerf would be sufficent. As it is, you have to build A LOT of radar to get good coverage.
2. Mavs aren't mavs anymore with the new weapon
One of the coolest things about mavs was their very accurate fast gauss cannons. They just aren't the same without them (regardless of the whether or not they do the job). 3. When you tell the com to dgun, sometimes he hangs up a bit before he does it. I don't know if this is a script issue or an engine issue, but it happened multiple times to me, and to other players when we were playtesting and it is very annoying.
My problem with subs is that no matter how you turn it, Destroyers are just a better option. My normal T1 navy start is skeeters -> 2 corvettes -> destroyers till the cows come home. They can chew up naval defenses no problem and any other T1 ship, including of course subs (if not especially so). To top it all of they have great range and make excellent shore bombardment platforms. There is no drawback to going all-destroyers and forgoing subs (and corvettes for that matter) entirely.
So - here's what I propose to give subs meaning: buff corvettes. Keep armor, speed and range the same but increase RoF and damage. Make corvettes into high-dps, disposable glass cannons that can chew up destroyers of equal metal cost. Suddenly both corvettes AND subs have a meaning.
So - here's what I propose to give subs meaning: buff corvettes. Keep armor, speed and range the same but increase RoF and damage. Make corvettes into high-dps, disposable glass cannons that can chew up destroyers of equal metal cost. Suddenly both corvettes AND subs have a meaning.
HAHAHAHAHHAHA.
I just tried the new beta and found some funny stuff.
3 air transports can kill a HLLT.
10 can come close to killing a Doomsday machine. (300 hp left).
Commandos sometimes slides, has no buildpic, can capture while cloaked and needs a unit to actually be close enough for them to kiss to be detected. Their explosion paralyses more then 20 seconds.
Also, uncloaking a commando next to a LLT will kill the LLT.
Now if you excuse me, i need to go roll on the floor, laughing.
I just tried the new beta and found some funny stuff.
3 air transports can kill a HLLT.
10 can come close to killing a Doomsday machine. (300 hp left).
Commandos sometimes slides, has no buildpic, can capture while cloaked and needs a unit to actually be close enough for them to kiss to be detected. Their explosion paralyses more then 20 seconds.
Also, uncloaking a commando next to a LLT will kill the LLT.
Now if you excuse me, i need to go roll on the floor, laughing.