Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 11 Sep 2006, 06:02

Firestorm was the bane of my existence since the day I found it. I knew it had to end this way. I knew it wouldn't be easy, but I didn't know it would be so hard... let's take it back to the start. Or not. DAMN I hate that unit. Especially now that there's flamethrower effects that aren't so embarassing. I might have to make a similar kind of thing later but with a unit that's actually suited to it.

I've still got some tweaking to do to L3 yet, I guess. There's a fine line between L3 being the thing to tech jump to in order to be guaranteed a win, and L3 being pointless. To prevent tech-jumping, there's always the magic bullet of ridiculously high gantry energy costs.

I'll probably be reducing the cost of the heavier L3 units relative to their "advanced-ness"... For instance, Krogoth ought to be cheaper since even at HALF its current price it would be a massive undertaking to devote all those resources to a project and have the constant risk of it being suddenly hit by a nuke bomber or something. Need a new logic/maths system behind the build costs/times.

I'm pretty sure I left the code on Kargeneth open for an extra weapon. Maybe I'll give them a bit of a boost to help them be a better in-between unit.

So, L3 balance might be like this:

Marauder - Very fast, decent DPS and HP, all of Arm's strongest attributes
Shiva - Relatively slow, although quick compared with most of its contemporary L3 units
Razorback - Main battle unit, a Marauder with less speed and more firepower/survivability/utility
Kargeneth - Main battle unit, a rolling front line with no real weaknesses thanks to its anti-air abilities and long range, but sacrafices some of its HP and speed for these
Bantha - Highly versatile assault mech with no weaknesses except its vulnerability to swarms and aircraft
Krogoth - King of the hill that we all love and hate depending on what side we're on. Brutal, effectively 3x as powerful as a Bantha with the only defensive option being surrender ^^ (or snipers... or swarms... or air.... or dgun... or nuke bombers... or a ton of tanks)

I need to remember that really, there are not 2 resources as the newbies believe, or even three as the experienced would say. There are truly four: metal, energy, time, and risk. The fourth increases exponentially with the first three and is far more important.

I'm glad to see that some of the anxiety over this new version is being replaced with anticipation. I hope it proves to be worth the wait. Annnnd.... bedtime.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 11 Sep 2006, 06:29

Caydr wrote:Krogoth - King of the hill that we all love and hate depending on what side we're on. Brutal, effectively 3x as powerful as a Bantha with the only defensive option being surrender ^^ (or snipers... or swarms... or air.... or dgun... or nuke bombers... or a ton of tanks)

D-Gun only works once on Kroggy.

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 11 Sep 2006, 07:30

Firestorm could be altered into a gattling medium range LLT :D

That way Core's progression could be llt, Hllt, HLT, Firestorm, Viper, DoomsDayMachine.

I have a unit already modeled for it if you want to replace the model too caydr :D.

You could probably just use the origional model you had for it, since it was scripted to use a salvo shot, then recharge briefly before firing again.

Zydox · Post by **Zydox** » 11 Sep 2006, 07:33

Egarwaen wrote:D-Gun only works once on Kroggy.

You can always resurrect the commander

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 11 Sep 2006, 08:25

d-gunning a krog shouldn't kill the commander.... think of the game ends games!!

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 11 Sep 2006, 09:58

Especially since a recon unit uncloaking the com before it fires allows the Krog to blast the com easily.

Mr. D: Please make that picture smaller (like half size), you're breaking the page formatting!

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 11 Sep 2006, 10:04

MR.D wrote:Firestorm could be altered into a gattling medium range LLT :D

That way Core's progression could be llt, Hllt, HLT, Firestorm, Viper, DoomsDayMachine.

I have a unit already modeled for it if you want to replace the model too caydr :D.

You could probably just use the origional model you had for it, since it was scripted to use a salvo shot, then recharge briefly before firing again.
]http://mrd.str8-6.com/files/Mohawk.jpg

Ya might wanna thumbnail that, its breaking the tables

Edit: Beaten

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 11 Sep 2006, 10:07

Egarwaen wrote:D-Gun only works once on Kroggy.

Hmm... Once I dgunned 3 krogs till i died :D

And i agree, dgunning krog shouldnt kill the commander too fast... Krog can kill commander very fast if i remember right..

Hellspawn · Post by **Hellspawn** » 11 Sep 2006, 10:16

NOiZE wrote:d-gunning a krog shouldn't kill the commander.... think of the game ends games!!

Well thats your problem if opponent built krog xD.

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 11 Sep 2006, 10:19

To be honest I dont think the Karganeth really needs an extra weapon, its already extremely powerfull and versatile and is a really perfect unit for a game where both teams have powerfull economies and both land and air forces teched up.

It just brings all the hurt in one 3000 metal package

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 11 Sep 2006, 11:15

Karganeth is just fine, I would even say that its about as perfect as it can get for its role.

Problem now is that there is a big hole without the capability to build the Krogtaar, between these two mechs you could deal with just about anything that came at you.

What the KrogTaar couldn't do much against was medium/long ranged weapons and air, and thats what the Karganeth was best at, hitting those medium/long range defences and for air support.

Those two mechs together was a match made in heaven.

Trying to beef up the Karganeth to be multirole doesn't seem like a good answer to me.

Call me crazy, but I'd remove the ALL-Terrain feature from the karganeth and add back in the Krogtaar, or replace the Krogtaar with a true ATV that would be more appropriate in that middleweight ATV class.

R.I.P. Krogtaar, you will be missed.

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 11 Sep 2006, 13:08

Egarwaen wrote:
D-Gun only works once on Kroggy.

You speaketh lies.

A comm can d-gun up to 4 krogs without dying if you didn't take any hits from kroggie.

Add 5 thanks to repair and add even more krogs as your comm survives and gets more HP.

The trick is to time the d-gun so that you hit krog at the very edge of it - BEWM and your comm still survives will 1/3rd health.

Autorepair factor kicks in and you get 3 more krogs to d-gun.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 11 Sep 2006, 13:23

lol, 146 pages and running.. Maybe should think about either advancing version or making a new thread soon ^^

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 11 Sep 2006, 13:27

Uhm, Caydr. Chris killed my krog with ak's before XD

I couldn't believe that it wouldn't kill about 500 of them..

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 11 Sep 2006, 14:04

NOOOOO! Don't buff the Karg's weaponry. It's an all-terrain mech - the damn thing is already a terror on chokepoint maps. You've got a unit that can get into your base through unexpected entry, can rip whatever small units and defenses you've got in there for such an occaision, and can make mincemeat of aircraft. The damn things are incredibly effective at the all-terrain assault already. Haven't you seen the havoc they wreak already on Altored_Divide? If you're going to make one of the Core L3 units into a KrogTaar, either buff the Shiva (and take it out of the Amphib Complex) or speed up the Goliath. The Karganeth is already freakishly effective within it's niche.

ZellSF · Post by **ZellSF** » 11 Sep 2006, 18:20

Pxtl wrote:
LOrDo wrote:I must comment... the greenfields people are gonna be so pissed at this version. :lol:
You pretty much killed com reclaiming,no mobile LRPC's,removed hyper radar...I can just see teh noobs now...

*Self D's com*
-WTF??? WERES TEH WREKAGE???
-It was removed this version.
-OMG HAX!!!
Hyper radar was bugged. Mobile LRPCs I don't understand, as I've rarely seen them used except on large naval maps, where imho they fit in quite well. And I say fsckyeah to the commreclaim nerfage... but then if it were up to me we'd all be playing Hovercomms.

If it were up to you we would all be playing something that's not working?

Good thing it's not up to you :P

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 11 Sep 2006, 18:23

Ok, no changes to karganeth then.

Might put taars back in, I guess. Or maybe not. Tricky.... I.... er... I'll think of something.

If he killed your krog with AKs, he must've attacked it from at least 3 directions simultaneously... a nice move. Why did you send your krogoth alone?

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 11 Sep 2006, 18:25

Hold on, what role does the Krogtaar fill, exactly? The Karganeth seems to be a pretty lethal all-ranges combat unit, like the Razorback. The Catapult and Vanguard provide long-range fire support.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 11 Sep 2006, 18:27

Krogtaar is sort of the same as a bantha, but with stronger medium-range weapons and no long-range ones. Ideally I'd like to make there be a natural progression on the Arm side, with a more Core-style "average, good, OMGWTFPWNBBQBYOBB!!!" progression for Core.

MR.D wrote:Firestorm could be altered into a gattling medium range LLT :D

That way Core's progression could be llt, Hllt, HLT, Firestorm, Viper, DoomsDayMachine.

I have a unit already modeled for it if you want to replace the model too caydr :D.

You could probably just use the origional model you had for it, since it was scripted to use a salvo shot, then recharge briefly before firing again.

That's a pretty nice model. If you can get it skinned core-ish and without making every other core unit look like crap, I might be able to put it into the next version. (not 2.2, but next)

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 11 Sep 2006, 18:34

Oh, another reminder for Core players: You have the Juggernaut and a pair of T2.5 units: the Goliath and the Sumo.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11