Starcraft 2

[Machete234]

So apparently they do have a lan mode for tournaments just not for the masses?

[Forboding Angel]

There's no requirement that it be premeditated. I think most cheese is a snap decision honestly. "I've gotten a slight advantage! I'm gonna cut all workers and kill him right now!"

I don't think that is cheese. Cheese to me means an all-in that happens close to the start of the game before such and all-in can be scouted. Anything you do after you have an advantage isn't cheese.

Basically I agree with 1v0ry_k1ng. Cheese is a planned early rush that is countered if your opponent expects it and leaves the rusher completely screwed if it is countered.

^^ This. Tbh I hate cheese in SC2. The good thing is that generally it's morons who try to pull it off (like mass voidray rushes and shit -- lolmeet my lvl1 weapons and blink stalkers biatch!).

One thing tho, a while back I got cheesed so effectively that it was hilarious. Right at the start of the game I have 3 probes in my base and I'm thinking "why the fuck would he pull off 3? 2 zealots, 4 pylons and 3 cannons later I figured it out. Messed my whole game up because I didn't understand what was going on. Keep in mind I'm really really new to the sc2 world. Have never played a game of sc in my life until a week before beta ended and now that I own it.

Sc2 is a good game, but suffers from a lot of rps stuff that I really don't like, however, I imagine that could be said truthfully of any game really.

If nothing else, the campaign was worth the 60 bucks I paid for it.

Another piece of chesse I've encountered repeatedly in the past couple days is terran mass marine cheese (best when done with a proxy, btu works regardless). I'm new enough to the point that I don't really know what to do the counter it, so I googled the strat and found that zealots (especially chargelots) will mow through marines like crazy. Mix in a few stalkers for seasoning and then later on colossus and high temps will take care of the rest.

The bad part is that sc2 is extremely susceptible to cheese. Sc2 is fairly hard to scout in. Of course being a toss fanatic I generally have 2 or so observers on the field, but if you aren't terran there isn't really any quick scouting methods (yeah I know hallucinated phoenix blah blah blah). For newbies this makes the game extremely harsh.

I have found that winning in sc2 is good (so far I'm about 60%/40% wins/losses) but losing can be rather harsh and quite frustrating. I think this is because the slippery slope in Sc2 is really steep.

Meh thats jsut the way the game is tho, if you don't like it well there is always the AI and the missions/'challenges. I myself limit how much I play it though, intentionally, because I get in the zone and go at it for hours. Sometimes I'll get really frustrated about it, so it's good to keep perspective. I have never played an RTS before where I was actually frustrated about losing. None of the spring games have ever really upset me about losing, RUSE never bothered me (course I lost very rarely in that game <3 RUSE), but losing in sc2 really gets under my skin.

Edit: So after making this post I went and played some sc2 4v4 ladder, and in 3 games halved my dismal division rank (course by now it's polly right back where it was... you never seem to get anywhere unless you play constantly). 2gate robo ftw

[SwiftSpear]

I think the reason why it's so easy to get mad about losing in SC is that is somehow feels more serious than other games. You're losing your ladder points, your rank is recorded, your gamer status is in question, plus so often losses are against something you just didn't expect, some "cheese".

I'm extremely hesitant to call mass marine cheese. The second best terran in the world popularized it by destroying everyone with it. It's a narrow strategy, but it has multiple stages of the game, and it's not like you can just "hold him off until he runs out of money/units then he's screwed" or something.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

maybe, but as protoss as long as you can execute proxy gate you are insantly platium league.

[Johannes]

If you can execute anything you are diamond league, no? Which makes you belong in the top 120,000 in the world, yey

[Sabutai]

I'm saving the comission I make with my shop http://www.kinectforxbox.com/springrts/shop.php to hire Husky for a BA cast.

[PRO_rANDY]

http://live.dreamhack.se/channel/offici ... bedded.htm

Stream for dreamhack, big LAN tournament on in sweden atm. Lots and lots of top players there should be some good games :)

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=164636
^ TL thread on the event

[SwiftSpear]

Cheese is a buzzword that has taken off and has become the excuse for whiny players who lose a game to an unorthodox strategy :d personally I love a bit of cheese.

Will also be buying premium HD stream for GSL 3, had it for the previous two seasons. Will be rooting for all the foreigners, and ofcourse, fruitdealer! About 8 hours to go :D:D

4 wins so far, 1 more foreigner win and we've outperformed the Koreans in the tourny on average! Woo!

[SwiftSpear]

So apparently they do have a lan mode for tournaments just not for the masses?

Based on what? As far as I know all the major tournaments have been running through battlenet. There was an internet outage in the final of MLG that accidentally the whole tournament.

[Machete234]

Ok then they are crazy

[Forboding Angel]

Cheese is a descriptions for something that is a little too easy to pull off and takes little to no forethought.

Proxy barracks anyone? Same could be said for 4gate proxy but at least that takes a little effort. 6pool, etc. So I've been winning a lot lately, as in losing like 2 games out of 12 - 15 ish vs people that are "Favored to win against me, except my last game of the night where I lose to a very good terran that was able to simply outmacro me. Damn shame really, If I had transitioned to colossus from high temps sooner I could have won. However, on the other hand, he played a more or less flawless game. Kept the pressure on all game, even though I was able to hold it off and 1shotted at least 6 medivacs at various times with feedback, I just couldn't produce fast enough.

You would think that 8gates 2 robos and an assload of chargelots, stalkers and high temps with a sprinkling of immortals would be able to hold it off, but he was using mainly mmmthor and basically I needed colossus and just couldn't get them.

Losing to a player who simply plays better than you is fairly satisfying if you did a good job (and I did, I made plenty of mistakes tho). It's losing to something like a 6pool that's frustrating, cause if you don't spot the spawning pool in enough time or your scouting probe/drone/scv gets sniped by several workers before you can spot it, you're fucked. And as protoss vs a 6pool you have basically no choice except to 4gate, so if you go 2gate robo, you're in really bad shape.

Meh I dunno really, sc2 has a lot of areas where the game can be exploited and in many cases could be considered bugs, but it's so ingrained into the gameplay that that is simply the way it is.

Entertaining game regardless and watching commentary of sc2 games is a lot of fun.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

GSL 3 bets people!

I'm going with Idra, his predictable, unfleixble but mechanically perfect macro build that was insane with range 3 roaches is on a whole new level with the 4 range roach... he'll have figured out a counter to overseers gooping his hatchery this time round (which is what took him out of GSL2)

And as protoss vs a 6pool you have basically no choice except to 4gate, so if you go 2gate robo, you're in really bad shape

...what? if you block your ramp from the 6pool rush you've won.

[SwiftSpear]

Cheese is a descriptions for something that is a little too easy to pull off and takes little to no forethought.

Proxy barracks anyone? Same could be said for 4gate proxy but at least that takes a little effort. 6pool, etc. So I've been winning a lot lately, as in losing like 2 games out of 12 - 15 ish vs people that are "Favored to win against me, except my last game of the night where I lose to a very good terran that was able to simply outmacro me. Damn shame really, If I had transitioned to colossus from high temps sooner I could have won. However, on the other hand, he played a more or less flawless game. Kept the pressure on all game, even though I was able to hold it off and 1shotted at least 6 medivacs at various times with feedback, I just couldn't produce fast enough.

You would think that 8gates 2 robos and an assload of chargelots, stalkers and high temps with a sprinkling of immortals would be able to hold it off, but he was using mainly mmmthor and basically I needed colossus and just couldn't get them.

Losing to a player who simply plays better than you is fairly satisfying if you did a good job (and I did, I made plenty of mistakes tho). It's losing to something like a 6pool that's frustrating, cause if you don't spot the spawning pool in enough time or your scouting probe/drone/scv gets sniped by several workers before you can spot it, you're fucked. And as protoss vs a 6pool you have basically no choice except to 4gate, so if you go 2gate robo, you're in really bad shape.

Meh I dunno really, sc2 has a lot of areas where the game can be exploited and in many cases could be considered bugs, but it's so ingrained into the gameplay that that is simply the way it is.

Entertaining game regardless and watching commentary of sc2 games is a lot of fun.

4 warp proxy isn't cheese, you only need 1 pylon in the opponent's area, it's standard I'd say. Same with engine bay at the bottom of a zerg ramp or double pylon cannon rush at the bottom of a zerg ramp. They are a common offensive tactic for fast ex, they have a clear followthrough and thus are not cheese. Cheese to me, is almost exclusively all in builds. Where you have to destroy at least half of the enemy base to be on equal grounds again.

[Machete234]

Meh I dunno really, sc2 has a lot of areas where the game can be exploited and in many cases could be considered bugs, but it's so ingrained into the gameplay that that is simply the way it is.

In this game it seems either you piss people off or they piss you off.
When you dont know how to counter something its game over.

[Wombat]

was wondering, ive watched probably most of the tournaments replays on youtube, why nobody use diamonds, or something like that ? (these laser hovers). is that becouse terran vs terran is so rare ? looks like useful unit but nobody use them :/

[Hoi]

They are excluded from the multiplayer, and so are some other units that can be used in the single player. (balance issues, and terran would have too many units because the 1st part of the game is about them).

[Wombat]

thats so D:

out of curiosity, what other units are missing ?

[SwiftSpear]

thats so D:

out of curiosity, what other units are missing ?

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Categor ... aign_units these

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Categor ... _NPC_units
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Categor ... _NPC_units

[1v0ry_k1ng]

Idra is through the Ro64 fuck yea

[Jazcash]

Yeh, my face was so disappoint when I found out Diamondbacks wern't in Multiplayer. I pretty much completed campaign with them alone and nothing else