Curious

[Pxtl]

@ Jazcash

If you're a Christian, you're going to heaven, if you're not, you're going to hell.

Your God is an asshole.

[Big Take]

all i can do is look at dictionary.com

ÔÇônoun
7. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity.
8. a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ: He died like a true Christian.
9. a member of any of certain Protestant churches, as the Disciples of Christ and the Plymouth Brethren.

this is pretty much how i had the word defined in my mind...

and by defenition 8, dictionary.com seems to feel jaz that you could be considered a christian. what you yourself feel is of course aside from this but it's the standard use of the word as far as i've seen in my own reading.

Here's my clear cut equation. If you're a Christian, you're going to heaven, if you're not, you're going to hell. Also, being Christian is a choice. If I say I'm not a Christian then I'm not.

I still don't get why people are surprised when the response to, "everyone who believes differently from me will be tortured horribly," is, "fuck you too, then!"

[Jazcash]

Can you people stop fucking judging me by what I say and what I stand for. I'm just defending the Christian faith from "assumptionists" like you from thinking it's something it isn't. I'm simply stating what Christians believe, I'm not condemning you or whatever bullshit you think I'm trying to pull.

[tombom]

Here's my clear cut equation. If you're a Christian, you're going to heaven, if you're not, you're going to hell. Also, being Christian is a choice. If I say I'm not a Christian then I'm not.

Why does an infinitely loving and forgiving god send good people to hell for an infinite time for not following a religion which they had no reason to believe was true when they only had a finite time to make that choice?

And realise many Christians don't believe this.

[Sucky_Lord]

Can you people stop fucking judging me by what I say and what I stand for.

Surely thats the definition of judging someone.. What in the hell else would we use to judge you? Your looks? Your clothes?!

Oh, I suppose you think its more a case of skin colour and sexuality.. Yeah sorry, I forgot you're a proud racist homophobe

[Big Take]

Can you people stop fucking judging me by what I say and what I stand for. I'm just defending the Christian faith from "assumptionists" like you from thinking it's something it isn't. I'm simply stating what Christians believe, I'm not condemning you or whatever bullshit you think I'm trying to pull.

"Stop judging me on my words and actions! I'm a good person, I swear! Christianity isn't about being mean and oppressing people, it's just about telling people they need to hold very specific beliefs or they'll be tortured horribly for all eternity!"

Quick edit: I realize not all Christians believe that belief is the critical element of salvation and that many, many of them believe that good works, regardless of your beliefs, are the only requirement to enter heaven.

[KaiserJ]

hey, i'm just trying to shed some light on the confusion and trying to keep my own bias out of the mix because it's pretty much irrelevant at this point

you have your own definitions of stuff, that's cool, its just a matter of letting us know because the same words are used for other meanings as well.

I'm simply stating what Christians believe, I'm not condemning you or whatever bullshit you think I'm trying to pull.

but... at the end of the day, its what YOU believe, unless we're using your definition of christianity as well, then you're bang on the money. (in any case i dont think you're referring to me here but i figure this is the main problem and cause of conflict) im sure there are plenty of people out there who would call themselves christian and yet disagree with some of the things you've said... but then, by your defenition, we wouldn't call those people christian to begin with.

anyways. happy victoria day long weekend dudes! crackin' a brew 4 u!

[Jazcash]

Stop asking me and read it for yourself you lazy bastards.

[tombom]

Stop asking me and read it for yourself you lazy bastards.

we're asking you because your views aren't representative of mainstream christianity, at least in the uk

idiot

[momfreeek]

I find christians are often shocked that they managed to offend other people. "I'm going to heaven, you're going to hell" is pretty much the same thing as: "I'm great and you are a loser". Insulting them back only reinforces their superiority complex (now they think you are crude & uncivilized as well as a heathen). Such is the lunacy of people who are utterly convinced they know the answer to life.

I don't mean to offend any christians, I'm just defending my atheism/agnosticism.

[Jazcash]

Stop asking me and read it for yourself you lazy bastards.

we're asking you because your views aren't representative of mainstream christianity, at least in the uk

idiot

And how would you know what the views of mainstream Christianity's views are? I've been to church every Sunday since the day I was born to this date. If you think I'm uninformed of Christianity then you're mistaken.

Moron.

[Big Take]

Stop asking me and read it for yourself you lazy bastards.

we're asking you because your views aren't representative of mainstream christianity, at least in the uk

idiot

And how would you know what the views of mainstream Christianity's views are? I've been to church every Sunday since the day I was born to this date. If you think I'm uninformed of Christianity then you're mistaken.

Moron.

I'm pretty sure the average Christian in the UK doesn't go to church every Sunday, thus making 'mainstream' Christianity, the sort most people encounter, 'lapsed' Christianity.

Besides, even if not, with all the various denominations in play, it's difficult to ascertain where within the large blanket of socially-defined Christianity you fall. Are you attending an Orthodox Anglican church? A reformed Catholic one? I'm going to guess you've never been in a Unitarian church, but I could be wrong. We're trying to tease out the justification for your beliefs because we're used to existing in a world where people question and challenge their own beliefs. You might be from that other, co-existent world where the Word of your chosen authority is taken as absolute law and never questioned, which would explain why you're not as much a fan of rigorous science. If it's the latter, please let us know so we can stop trying to get you to conform to our worldview and continue on with our lives.

[Pxtl]

@Jazcash - do you realize that many atheists were once church-going folk, or live with and care about church going Christians? Your detractors are every bit as familiar with doctrine as they need to be. My wife is a devout Anglican. In most of the more liberal parts of the Christian world, the concept that only one path is the "right" way to God is no longer espoused. Yes, there may be parts of the bible that espouse that kind of viewpoint, but there are many parts of the bible that are no longer followed, even by the most devout Christians.

As you said, religion *is* a choice. You choose to believe in (and support) a God who is, quite frankly, an asshole. Others don't, and still consider themselves Christians in that they still follow the word of Christ and believe in his divinity and place in Heaven.

Personally, though, I think it's all hogwash that we use so we won't feel alone, meaningless, and scared to death of our own mortality, but different strokes for different folks.

[Jazcash]

I'm pretty sure the average Christian in the UK doesn't go to church every Sunday

That just about sums up how much you know about the "average Christian" or maybe it's just you're assuming again.

[TradeMark]

I am christian on paper too, i never went to church unless i was forced to go there... (for example at school).

Why do you go to church? It's really boring there, they just repeat the bible and shit, cant you just read bible at your home?

Edit: Also when i was forced again to go to church like 5 times, i mostly saw old people there... explains a lot about the fear of death and stuff.

[Jazcash]

@Jazcash - do you realize that many atheists were once church-going folk, or live with and care about church going Christians? Your detractors are every bit as familiar with doctrine as they need to be. My wife is a devout Anglican.

I don't suppose you've ever told her you think God's an asshole and that her faith is just some silly fantasy to ease her lonliness?

[Jazcash]

I am christian on paper too, i never went to church unless i was forced to go there... (for example at school).

Why do you go to church? It's really boring there, they just repeat the bible and shit, cant you just read bible at your home?

That's just your stereotyped view of churches. I go to a lively church where there's a small modern band, intelligible speakers who challenge believers and the regular minister who does the usual church speak which is basically tell believers how they can be better Christians. Everything spoken there is always related to the real world and it's very down to earth.

As a good speaker said not long ago, for a non-Christian, chruch is very boring, there's no doubt about it. However, for a true Christian, it's the most exciting time of the week.

It's not an extremist church, it's a pretty subtle church and is generally a comforting place to be as everybody always seems happy and you just get satisfaction from how joyful people can be.

The only time the Bible is usually read is to spark off a speech and to refer to.

The only thing I'm against is the damn singing. Bloody hell singing gets on my nerves ¬_¬

[Sucky_Lord]

intelligible speakers who challenge believers

That must be the most one sided argument ever to have existed..

Christians, debating with christians, for the benefit of christian listeners, the belief in christianity ;D

[TradeMark]

I go to a lively church where there's a small modern band, intelligible speakers who challenge believers and the regular minister who does the usual church speak which is basically tell believers how they can be better Christians. Everything spoken there is always related to the real world and it's very down to earth.

yeah same here, except the modern band... they just talk like news and stuff, and try to quote the bible at same time.

Hmm. maybe i should try going in church one more time... been a while since last time...

[Jazcash]

intelligible speakers who challenge believers

That must be the most one sided argument ever to have existed..

Christians, debating with christians, for the benefit of christian listeners, the belief in christianity ;D

Not the belief in Christianity, simply the things we do and how we should act and how to set a good moral example. There are hundreds of moral topics, which, for new Christians, can be confusing as to which way they should turn. It probably sounds a bit childish the way I'm conveying it but it's not