..:: New GUI Design - in progress ::..
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Erm, how would you reclaim the wrecks if you were losing? I'm sorry, but I don't see your point. Nor did I claim that this was some modification that should be done to every Spring game design. For that matter, this is all theoretical anyhow, we don't actually have a new GUI, let alone one that can do real changes to load-balancing in a fast, intuitive way.
I think what he is trying to say is that with a low worker time reclaiming metal is fast. As in hide the commander durring the frenzy.. purposefully lose a decoy com.. bitch in chatter about your comm loss. When the enemy disperses to find your last mex quickly reclaim the metal you need build a factory... get some con units... set them on area reclaim.Argh wrote:Erm, how would you reclaim the wrecks if you were losing? I'm sorry, but I don't see your point. Nor did I claim that this was some modification that should be done to every Spring game design.
I do this anyway though.
I see one major (or not, depending on your point of view) problem with your GUI though, it doesn't seem to take the lowest possible resolution in Spring into consideration.
Some might claim that this isn't a problem, as "everyone" plays on 1024x768 or above, but I know that I could play Spring pretty well a few version back on my old computer as long as I turned off most of the settings and played at a low resolution, and I do belive that a good standard GUI should take this into consideration.
Another issue that this GUI potentially can have is that it simply contains too much information, as Gnome put it, its too "busy". I might be wrong about this, but to me it looks like there is too many things to someone both used to the game and those new to it. Granted, you can turn the windows off, but turning some windows off while getting rid of some of the commands you don't want, will at the same time remove commands you do want.
A example of this would be to close the "COMMAND" window, first of, what happens to the build menu in that case? Secondly, you loose the ability to change switches, select AI etc. If you simply minimize the ordinary and special command window, meaning you still have the "SWITCHES", you still loose the ability to select an AI.
For a "newbie" on the other hand, I would probably be a bit intimidated by all those windows. ETC? Wait move? Camera? The GUI seems to fit someone who is used to the game but still doesn't remember the shortcuts best, for someone new to the game I would feel it preferably would have a more streamlined interface, the same thing goes for a veteran player.
Basically, the GUI at the moment provides a lot of information, but its too much information both for a newbie and a veteran player, or at least that's how I feel. For someone that is neither a newbie or a veteran it could probably work though.
Some might claim that this isn't a problem, as "everyone" plays on 1024x768 or above, but I know that I could play Spring pretty well a few version back on my old computer as long as I turned off most of the settings and played at a low resolution, and I do belive that a good standard GUI should take this into consideration.
Another issue that this GUI potentially can have is that it simply contains too much information, as Gnome put it, its too "busy". I might be wrong about this, but to me it looks like there is too many things to someone both used to the game and those new to it. Granted, you can turn the windows off, but turning some windows off while getting rid of some of the commands you don't want, will at the same time remove commands you do want.
A example of this would be to close the "COMMAND" window, first of, what happens to the build menu in that case? Secondly, you loose the ability to change switches, select AI etc. If you simply minimize the ordinary and special command window, meaning you still have the "SWITCHES", you still loose the ability to select an AI.
For a "newbie" on the other hand, I would probably be a bit intimidated by all those windows. ETC? Wait move? Camera? The GUI seems to fit someone who is used to the game but still doesn't remember the shortcuts best, for someone new to the game I would feel it preferably would have a more streamlined interface, the same thing goes for a veteran player.
Basically, the GUI at the moment provides a lot of information, but its too much information both for a newbie and a veteran player, or at least that's how I feel. For someone that is neither a newbie or a veteran it could probably work though.
Last edited by SecurE on 03 Jun 2006, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
Argh, read what i said more closely... We basically agree that it shouldnt be a feature for OTA style mods.
I LOVE the information overload, all those features so far are nice. But most should be turned off by default and be disableable completely (so there arent hundreds of little maximize buttons floating around). Basically the GUI needs an options menu where the windows can be disabled or enabled, instead of giving every window a minimize/close button, which can be clicked by accident (would suck donkey balls) and if minimized provide annoying floating rectagles that achieve nothing but annoy. With the exception of commonly used features like the minimap and commands/buildpics there should be no close/minimize buttons anywhere in the gui, those other functions should be controlled in an options menu.
I LOVE the information overload, all those features so far are nice. But most should be turned off by default and be disableable completely (so there arent hundreds of little maximize buttons floating around). Basically the GUI needs an options menu where the windows can be disabled or enabled, instead of giving every window a minimize/close button, which can be clicked by accident (would suck donkey balls) and if minimized provide annoying floating rectagles that achieve nothing but annoy. With the exception of commonly used features like the minimap and commands/buildpics there should be no close/minimize buttons anywhere in the gui, those other functions should be controlled in an options menu.
Oh, how could i forget!
WINAMP INTEGRATION! MUSIC FOR SPRING!
just some basic playback buttons (volume, next song, pause etc) and one line (+dropdown) with the currently playing song!
The songs are picked from folders in spring that you can fill with mp3s, with battle, building, victory and defeat ones! YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT..
/me readies himself to jump around and worship the GUI-makers if that really gets implemented!
WINAMP INTEGRATION! MUSIC FOR SPRING!
just some basic playback buttons (volume, next song, pause etc) and one line (+dropdown) with the currently playing song!
The songs are picked from folders in spring that you can fill with mp3s, with battle, building, victory and defeat ones! YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT..
/me readies himself to jump around and worship the GUI-makers if that really gets implemented!
SecurE, i think you are right in alot of things you say.
First off all, the size: it should be good resizable, or should play well on 0.8kx0.6k but also for 1280x1024... Hard thing to do.. But indeed something you really need to work on, if you want a good gui.
Next is the info-load.. As you say, it (might/probably) is too dense for newbs and too dense for vets... One thing is, that you will start with no groups, stats, or etc things.. so that simplifies it a tad.. But yes, some menu's aren't nessesary for vets, so they prob close them, but maybe some buttons will dissappear aswell, that weren't supposed to..
Maybe there should be some sort of poll, letting you choose between newb or vet, and after a question about what buttons you like to use often, and which ones you don't. This way i can bundle buttons that are used by vets into one screen, and probably also the ones that are used by newbs.. Or i could make 2 gui's, one for newbs, one for vets.. (offcourse should every gui-layout be custumizable as much as possible)
first thing i can think of is to move the ai selector to the switches menu, and make a better menu-box which allows players to config their layout (ingame).
Maybe some of you players can start to post buttons that you want to see/use often, and what ones you don't need. (and if you're new to spring, or an experienced player.)
So let me know
@Dwarden:
hopefully this can be done, and will look good aswell (in large/small scale). IF this is possible with cegui, it will also help alot in the support for multiple resolutions.
Post your wanted and dismissed buttons pleaze :)
First off all, the size: it should be good resizable, or should play well on 0.8kx0.6k but also for 1280x1024... Hard thing to do.. But indeed something you really need to work on, if you want a good gui.
Next is the info-load.. As you say, it (might/probably) is too dense for newbs and too dense for vets... One thing is, that you will start with no groups, stats, or etc things.. so that simplifies it a tad.. But yes, some menu's aren't nessesary for vets, so they prob close them, but maybe some buttons will dissappear aswell, that weren't supposed to..
Maybe there should be some sort of poll, letting you choose between newb or vet, and after a question about what buttons you like to use often, and which ones you don't. This way i can bundle buttons that are used by vets into one screen, and probably also the ones that are used by newbs.. Or i could make 2 gui's, one for newbs, one for vets.. (offcourse should every gui-layout be custumizable as much as possible)
first thing i can think of is to move the ai selector to the switches menu, and make a better menu-box which allows players to config their layout (ingame).
Maybe some of you players can start to post buttons that you want to see/use often, and what ones you don't need. (and if you're new to spring, or an experienced player.)
So let me know
@Dwarden:
hopefully this can be done, and will look good aswell (in large/small scale). IF this is possible with cegui, it will also help alot in the support for multiple resolutions.
Post your wanted and dismissed buttons pleaze :)
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
It'd be a bastard to code, but perhaps you could have an empty "custom pallet" window, and what you do is simply drag the buttons you want, in-game, onto that empty window. The buttons then become a part of that window, and you can add or remove as many as you want too.
That way, a veteran user could close all but the vital windows, and merge all the buttons he still uses onto a single pallet. This would give him far more screen space, as well as a focused window, which is customized entirely to the way he plays the game.
That way, a veteran user could close all but the vital windows, and merge all the buttons he still uses onto a single pallet. This would give him far more screen space, as well as a focused window, which is customized entirely to the way he plays the game.
Trust me when i say:
No GUI can be too dense for vets
A vet can use every scarp of info and every power command he in every game
God knows if I had a bar that showed random shot to hit ratios and energy per shots and other COMPLETELY RANDOM INFORMATION it would come in so useful in a situation that I would secks you so bad...
No GUI can be too dense for vets
A vet can use every scarp of info and every power command he in every game
God knows if I had a bar that showed random shot to hit ratios and energy per shots and other COMPLETELY RANDOM INFORMATION it would come in so useful in a situation that I would secks you so bad...
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
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esteroth12
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 18 May 2006, 21:19
i understand that shapes have been decided, but I ask that you reconsider; it would be convient to see unit style also, huh? you could:
Make land circles,
Make water squares,
Make air triangles,
and to replace the current way of differentiating between friendly/enemy, you can outline allies with white and enemies with black.
what do you think?
Make land circles,
Make water squares,
Make air triangles,
and to replace the current way of differentiating between friendly/enemy, you can outline allies with white and enemies with black.
what do you think?
GUI Scaling? You mean the GUI being the same size onscreen regardless of screensize? AHK AHK IHK YUK ICKY EEEUURRGGHHHH
sorry for that but when I goto a biger screensize I dotn want to waste space on extra large buttons when i can see them just fine at their smaller size. If anything they should have the option to display mroe ifnormation at a smaller size as a result rather than enlarge the current information to fill the screen, it looks silly stayignt he same size regardless of screen resolution
sorry for that but when I goto a biger screensize I dotn want to waste space on extra large buttons when i can see them just fine at their smaller size. If anything they should have the option to display mroe ifnormation at a smaller size as a result rather than enlarge the current information to fill the screen, it looks silly stayignt he same size regardless of screen resolution
@AF: Well that could be so, but think of the positive side, you can scale yout menu's to whatevar you want, so you make it as tiny as you want, to get (even) more space.
@Torrasque: i think that's a thing that should be inplemented in the code. Maybe one click to select the building site, and then you can move the mouse to orient the building, and click again when thats set aswell.
@esteroth12: Yes indeed, these things could work out quite nice. Only downside on your idea wth the extra outlining, is that these icons should remain as small as possible (imo), so the minimap doesn't get filled up right away with only a few units, and should still be good recognizeable. On the other hand, it is very nice to see what which units are. and maybe even more icons, for buildings, super units and maybe hovers) The best thing to get this work the best possible way still is, imo again, dual view! I don't know how many have this, and i'll start a poll on it. But this would be, i think, a great option to have the battle window on your right, and the fullscreen minimap on your left!
@warlord: Yes indeed, that would be the best thing. Maybe also with some preset avaiable. But dragging the buttons and creating your own gui is the best way.. But as far as i know, LUA was better for this... so cegui might not be able to pull this off... let's just hope it does :)
@Dragon45: Well personally i also like as much info as possible. All the things i have in my gui concept design, i most probably will use every single one of them in a game, and be very happy with them. But as said by securE, there might be some people that don't like this much info, they aren't all uber-critical, so quite some of them could be in some sort of submenu, or deleted...
I personally think that this un-does quite some of the concept of this design. The main aim was to make a clear and functional GUI, that can hold all the possible buttons needed for Spring. The second aim i had, was to make use of the GUI the best way possible, thus adding more info to it, that is very use-able for very different situations, and that is missing in the majority of RTS games, also in OTA, and offcourse also in Spring.
I hope that the cegui skin thing can make it customizable enough for every player, so that everyone can be happy, and make their own gui if they like.
@ All:
I still don't have info on what buttons everyone wants to have, and which ones he/she doesn't needs to have..(and wants to hide)
Let me know!
@Torrasque: i think that's a thing that should be inplemented in the code. Maybe one click to select the building site, and then you can move the mouse to orient the building, and click again when thats set aswell.
@esteroth12: Yes indeed, these things could work out quite nice. Only downside on your idea wth the extra outlining, is that these icons should remain as small as possible (imo), so the minimap doesn't get filled up right away with only a few units, and should still be good recognizeable. On the other hand, it is very nice to see what which units are. and maybe even more icons, for buildings, super units and maybe hovers) The best thing to get this work the best possible way still is, imo again, dual view! I don't know how many have this, and i'll start a poll on it. But this would be, i think, a great option to have the battle window on your right, and the fullscreen minimap on your left!
@warlord: Yes indeed, that would be the best thing. Maybe also with some preset avaiable. But dragging the buttons and creating your own gui is the best way.. But as far as i know, LUA was better for this... so cegui might not be able to pull this off... let's just hope it does :)
@Dragon45: Well personally i also like as much info as possible. All the things i have in my gui concept design, i most probably will use every single one of them in a game, and be very happy with them. But as said by securE, there might be some people that don't like this much info, they aren't all uber-critical, so quite some of them could be in some sort of submenu, or deleted...
I personally think that this un-does quite some of the concept of this design. The main aim was to make a clear and functional GUI, that can hold all the possible buttons needed for Spring. The second aim i had, was to make use of the GUI the best way possible, thus adding more info to it, that is very use-able for very different situations, and that is missing in the majority of RTS games, also in OTA, and offcourse also in Spring.
I hope that the cegui skin thing can make it customizable enough for every player, so that everyone can be happy, and make their own gui if they like.
@ All:
I still don't have info on what buttons everyone wants to have, and which ones he/she doesn't needs to have..(and wants to hide)
Let me know!
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Theotherguy
- Posts: 79
- Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 02:01
well I love it but like people have said its a bit too much information. You don't really have to remove much, just use space management, by making unneccessary windows simply smaller, or combine several redundant or obscure panels into one multifunction panel. I know its a harsh tradeoff, but it's kind of rediculous to have 60% of the screen taken up by menus (I'm exaggerating, but still.)
nstead of rpessing return and getting the SAY: thing displayed I'd rather the bottom line of the console windwo was a textfield with a send button, and theat pressing ctrl+up switched to previous commands typed, aswell as ahvignt he usual hide and close buttons, and possibly an ally/enemy type switch, OTA had an options button that showed a dialog with toggles to help with that soemthign similar would be great.