New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

[Pxtl]

OH
I have an idea?

what if there was an alternate building? a small power generator? this would supplant the wind gen on no wind maps?

Already exists, it's called a solar.

For a while, CA disabled the wind-generator if there was no wind on the map. It was greyed out. This feature was re-introduced and then re-removed recently... I think the general consensus is that playing on maps without wind in CA is _less fun_. Which is ultimately what it's all about, innit?

[Beherith]

The model itself, a spinning windmill is whats bothering me.

Car, why do you try and make me look like the one who started the override? When it truth it was CA that started it. I overrode the override.

[smoth]

For a while, CA disabled the wind-generator if there was no wind on the map.

I am not saying disable it. I am saying make a visually different alternative. went in the ca channel to talk about it but mostly it is people acting silly and none of the devs are there.

[CarRepairer]

You claim we're bullies yet luckywaldo and I have clearly been civil in this thread and explained our side of the matter and why we feel we were the ones who were dicked.

Your definition of dicked is quite loose. You guys also have assaulted one dude in force. 3-4 people attacking 1 poster is bullying.

The whole point of this thread is to find a solution, not to drive away.

then step off and let licho and behe work it out. you guys are only exacerbating the situation.

I'm the one who discovered the hidden surprise gadget-override after a few games were ruined and I'm the one who posted about it first in this thread. I think our feeling of being dicked is legit and my reason for posting here is legit.

But I too am getting tired of the arguing. We've actually had even more heated arguments like this within CA, there's no reason to get upset over it. The only thing that upsets me is when random trolls jump in and turn it into flame and talk about stuff they don't know, when it was just civil discussion until that point.

We have no choice but to find a solution because mappers, CA, and Spring in general need to work together, we're a fragile enough community already.

Car, why do you try and make me look like the one who started the override? When it truth it was CA that started it. I overrode the override.

It is our opinion that the CA-wind is a new and seperate feature that we decide to use instead of Spring-wind, so we don't see it as an override. Whereas your gadget specifically replaced ours. But here I go again arguing. Your opinion is just as valid as mine so I agree to disagree. If you guys are working on a solution, I hope it happens.

[smoth]

I understand and have talked to licho about that car. but when licho came in it would have been nice if the crowd would have stepped back. Instead they were emboldened by it.

[lurker]

Using the same model and same behavior as an existing behavior, but tweaking the parameters to it, is not a new and separate feature.

For some reason you don't seem to follow that taking Beherith's map and rereleasing it without permission is copyright infringement. He's implicitly granted distribution rights for it in intact form, and made it very clear that if wind is added these rights are not granted.

Two questions for everyone here. The first is purely opinion, the second is desire for facts.

1) In a general sense, do you feel that

Mod rules should override map rules?
or
Map rules should override mod rules?
or
The players should decide before each battle?

and why?

If you mean rules in a general sense: I want them equal and partially able to override each other, even though this puts maps at a disadvantage because of far more infrequent updates.

If you mean the LuaRules folder: Obviously mods, maps are supposed to use LuaGaia.

[Argh]

1. Making changes to the SMD is breaking copyright.

2. You don't need to do that. Simply change CA's wind Gadget behavior if you have a wind of zero to whatever you think is correct, or cause it to shut down and remove wind-gens from builder menus (personally, I think that's the smart way to handle "airless worlds", but I guess that's just me).

So, why all the ruckus? Wind is an arbitrary concept, CA's code doesn't need to reference the map SMD at all to operate correctly... there doesn't seem to be any real need to fight about this, or to violate the mapper's copyrights.

[Gota]

@Lurker
Lets be honest though...CA's wind was only wind compared to other games cause of the name of the wind gens themselves.
If they were called techyon energy generators this whole drama would probably not have happened.

[lurker]

@Lurker
Lets be honest though...CA's wind was only wind compared to other games cause of the name of the wind gens themselves.
If they were called techyon energy generators this whole drama would probably not have happened.

--By using wind on this map (even solar wind or interstellar wind) you are in violation of the license of this map.

The model itself, a spinning windmill is whats bothering me.

I'll have to disagree with you there, Gota.

[Gota]

Its different,cause the suggestion to change their name came post factum.
But your right about the fact its not gonna matter since behe already declined,if that is what you really meant.

[lurker]

It's different from having a different name because Beherith predicted a name change idea and said 'no'? If you think that go ahead.

[CarRepairer]

2. You don't need to do that. Simply change CA's wind Gadget behavior if you have a wind of zero to whatever you think is correct, or cause it to shut down and remove wind-gens from builder menus (personally, I think that's the smart way to handle "airless worlds", but I guess that's just me).

You haven't read my first post. The gadget got overriden by the map. Third page, fourth post down.

So, why all the ruckus? Wind is an arbitrary concept, CA's code doesn't need to reference the map SMD at all to operate correctly...

That's CA's opinion and what is being argued over in the last 9 pages. You aren't stating anything new.

[Gota]

Hmm,didnt notice what the second quote said.

[Argh]

Sorry, I haven't had time read all 11 pages of this.

So, why not just make a minor change to CA's Gadget to sidestep the issue, and voila, next SVN update it's done?

[SirArtturi]

Hmm interesting fight. Didn't read all of it though.

Didn't knew this contained such a gadget. Why do you want to go it with so radical way? Why windspeed = 0 isn't enough? Or is it that you just want not to see any windmills on such map?
If so, why is it a problem if CA people wants to override it and in that way make their mod unrealistic?

Is it a personal attack? :)

[Beherith]

Comon arrturi, I expected a better jab from you. Its for the simple reason of me not wanting windmills on an asteroid. Its my fault I try to put atmosphere in front of gameplay. But that map is very dear to me and I wanted to maintain its visual integrity.

[Argh]

That's understandable- frankly, I think it'd be better to just disable windgens from the buildmenus on maps with zero wind, for the correct feel, would be a good compromise.

[Pxtl]

For a while, CA disabled the wind-generator if there was no wind on the map.

I am not saying disable it. I am saying make a visually different alternative. went in the ca channel to talk about it but mostly it is people acting silly and none of the devs are there.

Oh, I've often had the same idea - convert solars into some other power-source, and make the new Wind Gens be Solar Gens - you could even put them on sticks so they will rotate to face the sun.

[Forboding Angel]

Comon arrturi, I expected a better jab from you. Its for the simple reason of me not wanting windmills on an asteroid. Its my fault I try to put atmosphere in front of gameplay. But that map is very dear to me and I wanted to maintain its visual integrity.

It's an island. IN SPIZZAAAAACCCE YO!!!

[Argh]

It's an island.

...in Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.