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Sure but I think the main "problem" is not that they are better but just the fact that on T2 there is no good ground AA that has some decent defense value against bombers. Not that they should become the almighty sky sweepers but it's sad that there is no advance in combat against bombers when comparing to the Lvl 1 situation...KDR_11k wrote:Fighters are better than ground AA because fighters require their own fac.
Did you actually ever play OTA online? You could snipe coms with bb in OTA, just like you can in BA now.dzzirrus wrote:Their damage was higher, but accuracy was a way lower!LordMatt wrote:rofl fail. Their accuracy is about the same as it was in OTA. Quit whining just cause you lost to some BBs and porc less.
Sounds like you're not playing BA the way it's meant to be played.MR.D wrote:Thats just flat out rude Matt, wtf.
This isn't OTA, its BA, and its Spring and a whole new ball game.
1 bertha isn't a big deal in most games, but when the enemy starts making walls of them and never has to move in another mobile unit to completely destroy the enemy, it just ends up ruining most games.
With the smaller size of most maps that are being played lately, (Delta Siege Dry, Comet Catcher, Tabula_v2, Charlie in the hills)
the enemy can build his bertha within the confines of his base behind butt loads of defenses, and have almost complete domination and area denial of 80-90% of the map.
Shields, while now have been improved to be pretty good at blocking LRPC shots, are expensive and if you're already taking bertha fire its nearly impossible to get built when the enemy can snipe them before being built.
Hypothetical scenario, but seen quite often now.
Both enemy have bertha and shields covering it, ok fine.
Its now just a Trench war, seeing who is stupid enough to pop his head out of the hole he has dug himself in first, and let the enemy rape all those units out in the open. (ala stalemate)
CA did Bertha the right way IMO, as they still maintain their long range, but are not Sniper accurate. This way they're good at pounding a Fixed base, or Structures, but have less effect against a mobile group of units.
As is right now, Bertha just ruin longer games, where you can't even fight, but have no choice but to spam more bertha of your own.
At that point in the game, I'm sure you would say just build mass bombers, which Fixed Ground AA, mobile or otherwise have no way in hell of stopping a massed bomber wave.
Only way to effectively take out bombers is with vamps/hawks, so you just spam fighters and lag the crap out of the game.
Its just a rock/paper/scissors deal, and it gets repetitive and boring.
Range does matter though, especially if your AA is closer to the front and away from the targets. This extra range allows you to get in more shots before the incoming planes fly past your AA (or reach their targets); it also makes the AA effectively cheaper as the same number cover a wider area.[Krogoth86] wrote:With that said the Flakker has a nice dps rate which is only theory though because of the high inaccuracy. The little range also isn't very supportive. The Chainsaw is the 2nd candidate for AA dps and it also has a nice range. But as the Packo comes very close to its dps and the range isn't that important here due to high aircraft speed I'd still prefer him as AA because of the costs...
T3 kbots should be superior to vehicles in most respects though, including AAdzzirrus wrote:BTW anyone except me wish to get adv. fusion aviable for t2 kbots (even instead of those t3 factory)?
I wish this because t2 kbots are quite underplayed anyway. And they arent better than tanks (atleast core's ones, arm's suck ))) ) in any case.
Yes, you can ask your ally for a veh. techie, but it isnt convinient...
OFCOURSE A WALL OF ENDGAME SHIT IS GOING TO SWAY THE GAME TO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, ITS LIKE SAYING THAT THERE SHOULD BE A ANTI NUKE THAT COULD KILL 200 SIMULTANEOUSLY LAUNCHED NUKES
1 bertha isn't a big deal in most games, but when the enemy starts making walls of them and never has to move in another mobile unit to completely destroy the enemy, it just ends up ruining most games.
this is the finest bullshit i've seen in the last few pages. Let me rephrase your words a bit.
As is right now, Bertha just ruin longer games, where you can't even fight, but have no choice but to spam more bertha of your own.
WELL SHIT, IF THE OPPOSITION HAS A LINE OF DDMS AND VIPERS AND FLAKS AND SHIELDS AND BERTHAS AND ANTINUKES AND A SCREEN OF 300 T2 FIGHTERS AND 50 TIMES YOUR ECONOMY YOU SHOULD DESERVE TO WIN JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE THAT BRIGHT OF A GUY.At that point in the game, I'm sure you would say just build mass bombers, which Fixed Ground AA, mobile or otherwise have no way in hell of stopping a massed bomber wave.
nobody is forcing you to play BA, i suggest you delete BA from your \mods folder, stop posting shit in here, and go play CA which never gets repetitive or boringIts just a rock/paper/scissors deal, and it gets repetitive and boring.
Coming from a guy who i doubt has never actually even played BA, we can all disregard this shitSounds like you only play 1v1, where the game never progreses past flash and stumpy spam.
What the hell? The very thing that kills t3 bots is air, so you'd like to give krogs a few flak cannons on the shoulders then? maybe a screamer missile up his crotch too?T3 kbots should be superior to vehicles in most respects though, including AA
This is something about air, you need a buffer. You need to shoot him down before he reaches your base- if you shoot him down over your base he's already dropped his bombs and its too late. Its like gine says, if he doesnt have enough territory to make aa in and doesnt have room to comfortably patrol his fighters, he cant shoot down air. Oh well, with so little territory he was probably going to lose anyway. You can do the same thing with EMP launchers or BB. On DSD, if you can hold the middle, you can make EMP launchers/BB and EMP his antis/bb his base. This is just the consequence of having less territory and is, imo, a good thing- allowing a player with a clear lead to secure victory.[Krogoth86] wrote:True - I didn't mention the defender here. Defenders don't just have the disadvantage of being weak healthwise, their problem also is that they eat up space like nothing which you don't always have. That makes them inappropiate for many situations and even if you have some room - as you probably have to put them shoulder on shoulder this is what makes them easy targets again...
Im sorry but the chainsaw is just rubbish, period. 3x the DPS of the defender for 10x the cost and 50% more range. Not worth it ever.YokoZar wrote:For this reason the chainsaw is probably better than the flakker, especially at killing bombers (note the DPS is very different for vs gunships compared with vs bombers)
Its ironic, we upped the accuracy on the Bertha first, before BA did. Everyone was going 'omg op it snipes everything'. Now they are saying 'Its more conservative than BA, i like it'.CA did Bertha the right way IMO, as they still maintain their long range, but are not Sniper accurate.
<3Sleksa wrote:[win]
Well the reason for this discussion was not about the way you have to do your AA (you're correct about what you said) but the lack of serious T2 ground AA that has a decent value against bombers (in comparison to T1)...Saktoth wrote:This is something about air, you need a buffer. You need to shoot him down before he reaches your base- if you shoot him down over your base he's already dropped his bombs and its too late. Its like gine says, if he doesnt have enough territory to make aa in and doesnt have room to comfortably patrol his fighters, he cant shoot down air. Oh well, with so little territory he was probably going to lose anyway. You can do the same thing with EMP launchers or BB. On DSD, if you can hold the middle, you can make EMP launchers/BB and EMP his antis/bb his base. This is just the consequence of having less territory and is, imo, a good thing- allowing a player with a clear lead to secure victory.
