I stand by ginekolog, increase it costs.
We don't have to remove it. Just nerf it.
Next to that, I cheer all changes that is going to be made. *cheers*
Absolute Annihilation: Spring 1.46
Moderator: Moderators
While i do appreciate the fact that AA is getting better and better, im starting to worry about this trend of "make a unit OP and then to make it "balanced" give it a weakness like a huge death explosion, 0hp or a unit that uber pwns it"
Sure, rock-paper-scissors has a definite place in RTS, and we have that already (air>ground>anti-air>air etc..). Overdoing it just makes the mod suck, like Empire Earth 2 which has no less than 14 separate unit types, each with their own unique counters. Rock-Paper-Scissors is sexy because it has the least amount of possible groups, which is 3, akin to pretty much all the most successful RTS:
-archer>infantry>horses>archers
-Defenses>assault units>artillery>defenses
and variations thereof...
Not to mention these things absolutely mess up the AI, who cant really predict that its forces will get owned by 4 flashes unless they always build levellers, while if they always build levellers a player can learn that and not build flashes anymore, leaving the AI with little more than turtles that get owned in the dozens by a single arty.
Sure, rock-paper-scissors has a definite place in RTS, and we have that already (air>ground>anti-air>air etc..). Overdoing it just makes the mod suck, like Empire Earth 2 which has no less than 14 separate unit types, each with their own unique counters. Rock-Paper-Scissors is sexy because it has the least amount of possible groups, which is 3, akin to pretty much all the most successful RTS:
-archer>infantry>horses>archers
-Defenses>assault units>artillery>defenses
and variations thereof...
Not to mention these things absolutely mess up the AI, who cant really predict that its forces will get owned by 4 flashes unless they always build levellers, while if they always build levellers a player can learn that and not build flashes anymore, leaving the AI with little more than turtles that get owned in the dozens by a single arty.
cydar, u might want to include this in 1.45, the Nerfed commander mod. Many ppl might like it.
gl
NOiZE wrote: http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=2567
gl
-
SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Code: Select all
Circular Saw/Eradicator energy cost per shot reduced to 5 (30)
Instigator turret rotation speed increased 50%, costs reduced 5%,
weapon range boosted 5%
SAM/Packo/Beamer/HLLT/Firestorm added back in, metal generators
removed, total unit count is now 378 (please be more vocal in
the future if you see a unit being removed that you want to keep!)
Audio compression improved, reducing filesize a bit
Bertha/Intimidator slope tolerance increased 30%
Viper removed from CTRL+B category
Anti-nuke speed decreased
Snake can fire now
Requiter no longer fires without orders
Recluse no longer fires at aircraft
Anti-nukes can no longer be cloaked
Fort walls are now non-reclaimable
Pillager reload time reduced 10%, costs reduced 15%
Tremor energy cost increased 50%, metal cost increased 35%, build
time increased 30%
Flash damage per second reduced by 5, costs increased 5%
Radar tower (L1+L2) range reduced 20%
Jethro/Crasher movement speed increased 10%
AK/Gator accuracy vs. fast units improved
AK aiming rate increased 20%
Guardian/Punisher range reduced 25, Ambusher/Toaster range
increased 25
Mobile tacnuke launcher movement speed reduced 25%
Leveler refire rate reduced 5%
Catapult costs increased 25%
Moho mex extraction rate increased to 0.4 (0.3, and was previously
0.5)
Beamer range increased 10%, damage increased 5%
HLLT HP increased 10%
Hover transport HP halved
"With Anti-Nuke" added to carrier description to help newbies
Mercury, Screamer firing rate doubled, damage halved
Fatboy range increased 10%
Maverick LoS increased 25%, HP increased 50
Submarine HP increased 10%, torpedo damage increased 15%
Cruiser HP increased 10%
Cruiser depth charge given to anti-air ship
Anti-air ship HP boosted 15%, depth charge range increased 10%
Phalanx/Copperhead HP boosted 20%, movement speed increased 5%
Demolisher damage increased 10%, LoS boosted 15%
Movement speeds are now:
ARMCK: 1.3 CORCK: 1.25 ARMACK: 1.25 CORACK: 1.2
ARMCV: 1.6 CORCV: 1.5 ARMACV: 1.55 CORACV: 1.45
Last edited by Caydr on 07 Mar 2006, 18:47, edited 3 times in total.
i don't think that will be done soon...Caydr wrote:Nothing on the list has actually been done yet, I'm still in the planning stage. I keep hoping the spring mod parser will be updated with the ability to read and cross-link between weapon and unit files. It'd be nice to be able to post an up-to-date unit guide simultaneously with the new version.
Hover transport HP halved? Why?
So that one hover transport cannot commnap anymore?
Okay.
What about two hover transports? Four?
Transports need high HP compared to other units, because they actually have to transport and protect other units. High transport HP is one of the best things about AA because amphibious assaults and sneak attacks and so many more tactics are finally viable like they never were in TA (also thanks to Spring's order system).
By halving hover transports' HP you are nerfing a unit for no other reason than the simple fact that people do not know how to stop them and like to whine about it.
So this nrf does two things
1) virtually eliminates the transpotrs' ability to perform its role
2) Does nothing to actually stop the problem... just build another transpt or two!
The transpt need same HP, people need to get over themselves and learn how to deal with it. Bladewings work. DTs work. Cloak + DGun works.
Comeon AA players, grow some backbone. :\
So that one hover transport cannot commnap anymore?
Okay.
What about two hover transports? Four?
Transports need high HP compared to other units, because they actually have to transport and protect other units. High transport HP is one of the best things about AA because amphibious assaults and sneak attacks and so many more tactics are finally viable like they never were in TA (also thanks to Spring's order system).
By halving hover transports' HP you are nerfing a unit for no other reason than the simple fact that people do not know how to stop them and like to whine about it.
So this nrf does two things
1) virtually eliminates the transpotrs' ability to perform its role
2) Does nothing to actually stop the problem... just build another transpt or two!
The transpt need same HP, people need to get over themselves and learn how to deal with it. Bladewings work. DTs work. Cloak + DGun works.
Comeon AA players, grow some backbone. :\
There's no way to prevent a certain unit from loading another certain unit, no. It would have to apply to all transports.
I won't halve their HP... If Mr Z could give me a hand with making all transports unable to load enemy units, that would solve the problem completely. That's ENEMY units... if it prevents loading ALLIED units as well, that's not such a great thing, but it would solve the problem.
So, which of these options is the best compromise:
a) make commanders non-transportable - this would prevent all forms of comm-napping, but also prevent things like speedy evacuations from a base that's about to go south. It would also make the commander literally tethered to the ground, not moving even in the face of a massive explosion (assuming it SURVIVES this explosion)
b) make all transport units unable to transport enemy (and POSSIBLY by extension any ALLIED) units - this should be possible via the new script tags introduced in 0.7. Even if it prevents the loading of allied units, it's still a big step in the right direction IMO.
c) reduce hover transport HP - this only delays the problem, doesn't eliminate it, and in many cases might have no effect at all.
d) remove hover transports - I don't like removing cavedog units, but this would fix a few other exploits in the process, and hover transports aren't vital when you use Spring's AWESOME group load/unload in conjunction with transport aircraft. The TA community thrived without these units, so it's reasonable to assume it wouldn't ruin the game to remove them.
e) tell the people who get comm-napped to suck it up and quit complaining, and also I'm very good-looking.
So? Which option appeals to you most?
I won't halve their HP... If Mr Z could give me a hand with making all transports unable to load enemy units, that would solve the problem completely. That's ENEMY units... if it prevents loading ALLIED units as well, that's not such a great thing, but it would solve the problem.
So, which of these options is the best compromise:
a) make commanders non-transportable - this would prevent all forms of comm-napping, but also prevent things like speedy evacuations from a base that's about to go south. It would also make the commander literally tethered to the ground, not moving even in the face of a massive explosion (assuming it SURVIVES this explosion)
b) make all transport units unable to transport enemy (and POSSIBLY by extension any ALLIED) units - this should be possible via the new script tags introduced in 0.7. Even if it prevents the loading of allied units, it's still a big step in the right direction IMO.
c) reduce hover transport HP - this only delays the problem, doesn't eliminate it, and in many cases might have no effect at all.
d) remove hover transports - I don't like removing cavedog units, but this would fix a few other exploits in the process, and hover transports aren't vital when you use Spring's AWESOME group load/unload in conjunction with transport aircraft. The TA community thrived without these units, so it's reasonable to assume it wouldn't ruin the game to remove them.
e) tell the people who get comm-napped to suck it up and quit complaining, and also I'm very good-looking.
So? Which option appeals to you most?
Last edited by Caydr on 07 Mar 2006, 21:20, edited 1 time in total.
