New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

[Neddie]

I make art for it to be played as the art it is intended to be. I don't make art for it to be butchered so some primadonna can have a poster of all his favorite things and disregard what made it art to begin with.

I very much enjoyed making maps, but between the facts that my work as mapper would largely be ignored, the pending work for specific projects (CA, War Evo, Evo RTS, KP) was unrecognized or unwanted, and that I received little encouragement as a mapper, I lost all desire to produce. I want to play maps as I design them, I designed them to fit the needs of different games, and thus to benefit those games. I wanted to play my part of the music, and among other things, the producers started to mix it out of the track.

You're being quite presumptuous.

[smoth]

so you are saying that the map has to be used for it to have a purpose? What if you made a good map. it wasn't played but later inspired something really popular (SSB)

[Beherith]

Forb, you totally missed the point. All of those statements, except the last one were made by CA ppl in comments/advice.

Basic: the hill around are blocked off for that very reason. You cant plant AA there because of the heights, so air has free access to anywhere, and I didnt want that in the gameplay.

[Gota]

You could say that making maps that people enjoy playing is also an art and it sure isn't easy.
The reason i wrote what i wrote was cause when i made maps i didn't have the thought in my mind that they are gonna be the next dsd nor was i mad when some of them were not played.
I enjoyed the process enough to not care about the rest.

[CarRepairer]

Two questions for everyone here. The first is purely opinion, the second is desire for facts.

1) In a general sense, do you feel that

Mod rules should override map rules?
or
Map rules should override mod rules?
or
The players should decide before each battle?

and why?

2) Could I legally modify Beherith's map and re-release it? If not, can I modify only parts of it and release? Why can't I modify certain parts?

[Gota]

Forb, you totally missed the point. All of those statements, except the last one were made by CA ppl in comments/advice.

Basic: the hill around are blocked off for that very reason. You cant plant AA there because of the heights, so air has free access to anywhere, and I didnt want that in the gameplay.

Yes, i know.
My question was exactly about that.why didn't you wanna allow bomber raids from there..
It would not have been unsolvable and might have introduced some new fun gameplay.
Maybe its just me,who played a lot of regular land 1v1 maps that craves for some new edge but it think it could have been enjoyable overall and noobs wouldn't even think about it anyway.
the map looks liek its meant for 1v1 or real small team games so its not crazy to make something a bit different since 1v1 players have more patience to try and experiment with a map
I cant test it ATM but can that be switched off using map options?if not than,again i think its a shame.

[Beherith]

Basic: cant be turned off, typemap via mapoptions wasnt known to me at the time of making.

Car: You may re-release it on one condition, still no wind. Meaning wind generators must output 0 energy.

[Forboding Angel]

Two questions for everyone here. The first is purely opinion, the second is desire for facts.

1) In a general sense, do you feel that

Mod rules should override map rules?
or
Map rules should override mod rules?
or
The players should decide before each battle?

and why?

2) Could I legally modify Beherith's map and re-release it? If not, can I modify only parts of it and release? Why can't I modify certain parts?

Mod rules should override map rules? With The players should have the chance to decide before each battle?

#2. Yes, as long as you don't touch the art assets, it is legal. That's why when we do remakes we remake the texture entirely, because the texture is covered by license.

HOWEVER

Of course on the other hand, behe and hunterw are the only mappers to ever release their stuff as something other than PD. As I have mentioned before, ALL of my maps (somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 at this point) are released as PD. That would mean free as in totally 100% no strings attached free. The only thing I ask is that if you modify one of my maps that you give me a credit somewhere that the original idea or inspiration came from "XYZ", but that is not required, just a nicety.

I have another idea though. Perhaps CA could implement something in it's wind gadget to signal that gadget on/off by default. The host could always change it, but by default it would be turned off.

[CarRepairer]

Car: You may re-release it on one condition, still no wind. Meaning wind generators must output 0 energy.

That's not a complete answer to my question. If, theoretically, I released it to allow windmills, what law would I be violating?

[Neddie]

2) Could I legally modify Beherith's map and re-release it? If not, can I modify only parts of it and release? Why can't I modify certain parts?

Depends on his license. If not otherwise defined, then the rights for the artwork (All the maps which comprise the map, plus the features) revert to him.

Legally, there is no problem with you changing his wind output. Ethical, however, it would not be.

[Neddie]

Of course on the other hand, behe and hunterw are the only mappers to ever release their stuff as something other than PD. As I have mentioned before, ALL of my maps (somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 at this point) are released as PD. That would mean free as in totally 100% no strings attached free. The only thing I ask is that if you modify one of my maps that you give me a credit somewhere that the original idea or inspiration came from "XYZ", but that is not required, just a nicety.

Not true. If not otherwise defined, the mapper retains rights.

[Beherith]

It takes ca 1 keystroke to override this, since they release often anyway.

@forb since when is the heightmap not art/covered by same license as texture?

And for cars poll: Map is default. Mod can give players the choice of overriding.

About the license: the lua file included tells you there is to be no wind.

[smoth]

1) In a general sense, do you feel that
- Mod rules should override map rules? or Map rules should override mod rules? or The players should decide before each battle?

All of the above. Sometimes a mod might want to replace one feature for another to maintain scale consistency or perhaps environment. Sometimes it might be cool to have a map that slightly changes a game(starcraft). Sometimes the players might not want to allow for the map to over ride the mod. going the other way would definitely break things but yeah.

2) Could I legally modify Beherith's map and re-release it?

It is only illegal if he pursues you in court.

If not, can I modify only parts of it and release?

Sure you could

Why can't I modify certain parts?

because you don't have notepad or 7zip?

Yeah you could take beherith's map and shit all over it if you want, whatever. However, Odds are he will be less willing to make another map. So ask yourself this, do you want to drive him away or try and work with him? because that is where this is going.

[Otherside]

rename wind to Cosmic energy problem solved >_>

Im pretty sure apophis has loads of it :}.

[Gota]

I dont understand...How about CA instead of calling them wind generators will call them solar wind generators?this way there can be no collision between the 2,not now and no in the future.
CA does not obey wind values anyway its just 2 constant numbers and energy output fluctuating between them in the same way on each and every map,who says it needs to be about wind?why cant it be about solar wind or whatever mumbo jumbo u can make up that would fit the model animation.

This way Behe doesnt look silly for making an asteroid map with wind to players and CA would avoid any issues forever regarding wind values.
EDIT:
damnit Otherise,my post only took longer cause i elaborated more.

[Beherith]

--By using wind on this map (even solar wind or interstellar wind) you are in violation of the license of this map.

Your cleverness is a few months too late.

[smoth]

OH
I have an idea?

what if there was an alternate building? a small power generator? this would supplant the wind gen on no wind maps?

[CarRepairer]

Legally, there is no problem with you changing his wind output.

According to smoth, he can pursue in court. So which of you is correct?

Ethical, however, it would not be.

Save that for question 1, question 2 is not discussing personal ethics.

It is only illegal if he pursues you in court.

Yeah you could take beherith's map and shit all over it if you want, whatever.

These two statements contradict. Can I legally or not? I of course am not implying I would do this, I find map-making boring personally, I have other things to do.

Odds are he will be less willing to make another map. So ask yourself this, do you want to drive him away or try and work with him? because that is where this is going.

For some reason you are making the point that this bullying only goes one way. You claim we're bullies yet luckywaldo and I have clearly been civil in this thread and explained our side of the matter and why we feel we were the ones who were dicked. The whole point of this thread is to find a solution, not to drive away. If we wanted to drive away, we would have already overridden his override and not even posted here.

[Gota]

Wouldnt calling wind gens in some other way satisfy you behe?or the model itself,spinning around like a windmill would bother you?

[smoth]

It is only illegal if he pursues you in court.

Yeah you could take beherith's map and shit all over it if you want, whatever.

These two statements contradict. Can I legally or not? I of course am not implying I would do this, I find map-making boring personally, I have other things to do.

I told you. It is only illegal when it is contested in court. You asked if you could. there is nothing stopping you besides further upsetting behe and him possibly wasting the time to take you to court over a map.

For some reason you are making the point that this bullying only goes one way.

You guys are. Licho and behe could have worked through a solution without you lot stirring up the fire.

You claim we're bullies yet luckywaldo and I have clearly been civil in this thread and explained our side of the matter and why we feel we were the ones who were dicked.

Your definition of dicked is quite loose. You guys also have assaulted one dude in force. 3-4 people attacking 1 poster is bullying.

The whole point of this thread is to find a solution, not to drive away.

then step off and let licho and behe work it out. you guys are only exacerbating the situation.