Balanced Annihilation V6.6

[Sleksa]

The loyalists mass costs are just 480 - just looked it up...

owh ok, but thats still twice the cost of a single factory, and it will still die to a single overcharge =P

[Sucky_Lord]

I said before, and i was ignored I think rockos and storms need to cost more and take longer to build, because LLTs are worth nothing against them, and even an HLT can be soon destroyed by properly microed rocket k-bots. T1 defences, therefore, are bordering on the edge of uselessness against them, and even a stumpy spam is soon negated. Perhaps, rather than increasing build-time and cost, the attack strength could be lowered. This would mean defensive structures would hold for longer against them, and a counter-attack force could stand a chance of winning the fray.
Please get back to me on this one - Sucky_Lord

[Beherith]

Storm/rocko is slow, weak and easily out microd with vecs. Hell just a janus or a leveler can take them out well. Arm has beamers, use them, they eat rockos.
They have crap LOS. If your stumpies are getting killed by rockos your doing it wrong.

[Pxtl]

This. Rockos have nothing _but_ firepower. It's their only notable attribute, and they suck at everything else. Hammers are even worse, since their only thing worth speaking of is a damage bonus vs. LLTs (do they still have that? Never use 'em).

[ginekolog]

what still bothers me a bit is that kbot GIMP is still the best sub in game - cost/BT for dps/health. Its natural counter should be sub killer imho.

I would add this damage to sub killers sub:
AMPHIBIOUS = 400

And descriptin to:
Submarine/Amphibious Killer

That way it would deal to amphibs same damage like to T1/2 subs and gimps would atleast have decent counter.

Makes sense? Good.

[YHCIR]

Pretty much the only thing storms/rockos can kill are LLT and HLT (but only just!), peewees, flashers, gators... anything can own them so hard.

Most maps t1 kbots are the wrong way to go anyway, they are just inferior compared to vehicles on flat terrain (hello DSD/tabular). If you spam them, they will just all get stuck behind each other/won't shoot and flashers will literally run circles around you.

[Gota]

wrong.
you can go kbots and win on DSD buttom just cause there are rockos and storm..

[Gota]

kbots are good anywhere as long as its crowded,and they don't need to cover much land,just cause they have Rocko and storm...if those 2 didnt exist kbots would be played so rare wed forget there are kbots at all.

[Pxtl]

Well, they could take away part of the amphib-speed-buff from amphibs so they move slower under-water - that's where the Gimp's real power comes from. If it were powerful but too slow to get anywhere, I don't think anybody would sweat it.

Of course, then amphibs go back to being (even more) useless.

[ginekolog]

well slow ambihbs are useless. Make sub hunters also anti amhib OR reduce gimps torpedo DPS by 30% would solve this problem.

I am more in favour to make subhunters also anti amphib as then u have to mix them in with your fleet. Takes more skill.

[Evil4Zerggin]

IMO the fundamental problem with Gimp balance is that it has land hit points (roughly) but functions as a sub. It's not so bad for other amphs because they can't shoot underwater. For BA, I agree with ginekolog: give them special damages so they effectively have sub-like hp in the water. Alternately you could do something weird with GET/SET ARMORED.

[Pxtl]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't it used to be that _all_ underwater weapons were anti-amphib? Why'd that get ditched? Since the amph speed-buff, it seems worthwhile in bringing it back.

[YHCIR]

wrong.
you can go kbots and win on DSD buttom just cause there are rockos and storm..

I have never seen t1 kbots successfully push the south on DSD, on the north side they can do OK because there's a hill, but on the south they suck.
Have you ever seen a rocko trying to kill a flasher?

[Gota]

it goes like this:
You push with the commander and rocket bots..
Any flash or stumpy gets neutralized by commander build llts or by the dgun.
Any defense of the other guy playing with vehicles gets outranged by rocket bots.
Sure if u wait tons of time the other guy will have an hlt up or hordes of flash but if u just keep pushing well there is not much he can do other than go around your defenses and for your base but that can only be done if the guy that is playing alone your side is a noob or a porcer and leaves your back exposed since he is not advancing.

[Beherith]

Ah gimps, one of the most underused yet nice units in the game. I dont think they need an underwater damage nerf. Have you seen how very little damage they do with those torps and how low their range is? Whenever gimps are used, theres always at least 10 of them, and thats almost 5k m cost. 5k worth of subs will disintegrate them in seconds.

On rockos on south of dsd: Very much doable, just spam them in a ratio of 5 storm, 1 ak (for scouting LOS), 1 rezzer. Set lab to hold position, so they dont move about, line them up with the aks for los, and start pwning. Rezzers to keep repairing/rezzing them.

[ginekolog]

Ah gimps, one of the most underused yet nice units in the game. I dont think they need an underwater damage nerf. Have you seen how very little damage they do with those torps and how low their range is? Whenever gimps are used, theres always at least 10 of them, and thats almost 5k m cost. 5k worth of subs will disintegrate them in seconds.

DONT lie about gimps please. I just did a test:

2 battle subs vs 9 gimps.

Gimps won with 5 left and could do even better as subs cant fire directly down (BUG??) while gimps can directly above. Even if this would be fixed and subs could actaually allways fire gimps would still win:

gimps 20 000 hps and 200 dps vs 4500 hp and 666 dps

+ gimps can kill land too ofc.

There is another BUG with gimps: If u build them in water and they never touch the land, their torpedos wont fire. wtf ?!
Once they move to land and back in water again the will fire normaly. Seem the need fresh air in order to fire torpeods

IMO atleset sub killers(if not all subs) should do xtra dmg to amphis or atleast only to gimps.

[BaNa]

IMO all other amphibs are broken, they should all be able to fire something underwater, it could be weak, but atm gimp is the ONLY amphib that is able to assault sea players. And yes gimp is OP, we all know it, it is made of too much win.

[Pxtl]

IMO all other amphibs are broken, they should all be able to fire something underwater, it could be weak, but atm gimp is the ONLY amphib that is able to assault sea players. And yes gimp is OP, we all know it, it is made of too much win.

Amphibs were never meant to be naval units, they're meant to be sneak-attack units, and able to get through small bodies of water that are normally impassable but not large enough to defend with a navy. You know, like all-terrain units.

The problem is that, in spring maps, those specific circumstances never ever happen.

[BaNa]

The problem is that, in spring maps, those specific circumstances never ever happen.

Well, they happen rarely. We may as well make amphibs suited the their new role.

[TheFatController]

DONT lie about gimps please. I just did a test:

2 battle subs vs 9 gimps.

Gimps won with 5 left and could do even better as subs cant fire directly down (BUG??) while gimps can directly above. Even if this would be fixed and subs could actaually allways fire gimps would still win

So you took battle subs and put them directly above gimps?? Battle subs are supposed to be more like artillery and if a player moved them that close to gimps they deserve to lose them, it's like saying 2 penetrators cant kill 11 stumpies - you should test with sharks or t1 subs and properly micro the units if you want to be accurate