CA X BA discussion

[Jasper1984]

I said that it can be useful when territory is hard to come by, and getting up the hill before the enemy does is a possibility.

There usually is a large range of viable times to tech up, i think. For instance, a good time to tech up is when there are no decent possibilities to break through with t1. Even if t2 wins every game, t1 armies often made that possible by gaining territory, holding ground and successful raids.
To be honest, BA is excellent, except for the damn OTA content that its dev(s) does not seem to intend to change ... ever. Of course new content must have the same performance, as some people do not have powerful computers.

[manored]

I said that it can be useful when territory is hard to come by, and getting up the hill before the enemy does is a possibility.

There usually is a large range of viable times to tech up, i think. For instance, a good time to tech up is when there are no decent possibilities to break through with t1. Even if t2 wins every game, t1 armies often made that possible by gaining territory, holding ground and successful raids.
To be honest, BA is excellent, except for the damn OTA content that its dev(s) does not seem to intend to change ... ever. Of course new content must have the same performance, as some people do not have powerful computers.

But it is too powerfull, it might seen little but its not little enough, having economy where you can defend it with ease is very valuable.

And I find that the range of times for teching up is short, if you do it early you die because enemy tech 1 kills you and if you do it late you also die because the enemy crushes you with the huge economy boost tech 2 gives. Off course you need some tech 1 first to gather the resources to tech up and defend ourself/raid the enemy while doing so, but tech 1 is really just a run for tech 2 unleash you largely out-skill your opponent or in small games.

[Spawn_Retard]

So whats wrong with porcing?

[Gota]

Nothing.
FAster doesnt mean better and having to defend in games is not bad as well.
OTA is much slower than ba but its also more fun.
Its all about the golden middle road between all element that makes a mod/game feel good.
When it excesses in one thing it fails.
Porcing is a nelement of a game.
When aplayer is losing how esle will he stop the game tempto to try and regain strangth?by building up some defence making the attacker stop or slow the pace.
Economy is also fun and being able to take these long term risks when u can either build a t2 lab early or go all out t1 is very fun as well.

[Jasper1984]

When aplayer is losing how esle will he stop the game tempto to try and regain strangth?

There are other ways you know, they are just harder to create in a game. By running, or hiding, for instance. Or that combined with guerilla warfare.
@Spawn_Retard: who were you replying to

[manored]

So whats wrong with porcing?

It should be an strategy that makes you last longer but causes your defeat in the end unleash you switch or are holding out for someone else.

[[TS]Lollocide]

Always though Porc was supposed to bugger up the enemy team until your backfield players pour t2 down their throats.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

Quit trying to balance mods with your experience in team games.

[pintle]

Quit trying to balance mods with your experience in team games.

Team play is WAY more prevailent in every single spring mod there is, and as BA proves, balancing solely for 1v1 leads to a pretty borked late game (adv fus/moho mm spaem for eg).

Its not impossible to balance an rts for 1v1 and team play, and without empirical evidence acquired through actual in-game experience, you will end up with Tired Annihilation pre all the tweaks post release.

I would argue that through the diplomacy options available (unit/economy sharing, either lump sum or fluid) Spring is one of the best environments for team based rts.
Team games lead to more diverse and extreme builds/strategies, precisely because players are not under the constant pressure of 1v1 and can hide behind their allies etc. Lets assume you are in a decent clan, or at least not on a team of retards, in such a situation, the game becomes far more complex, utilising quite a different skill set to 1v1ing, which i dont perceive as an inherently bad thing.

//nerdrage

[Jasper1984]

Team games have more complex interactions, take longer, are generally played at a lower level of overal skill. It is harder to get 3v3 skilled players, and when you have them, it is also harder to establish teamwork in the teams. The set of good instances to draw experience from in 1v1 is just way larger.(When people are not playing 'seriously' you can not really draw many conclusions.)
Besides, afaik mod balancers play more 1v1 generally, and the rest of the players should play 1v1 more too imo.

[manored]

Should? Why? People play to have fun, well, at least I do, and for me team games are funnier :)

[Gota]

Should? Why? People play to have fun, well, at least I do, and for me team games are funnier :)

You got that right.

[Tribulexrenamed]

So whats wrong with porcing?

Dumbass. How can you win by porcing? You have to attack to win. Since everyone porcs anyway, if you expand and attack, you can win very easily. I cant wait to land my com in your base and dgun everything just to prove this point.

[Jasper1984]

You're the dumbass here. You can win by making a nuke, making large surprise army. If the enemy keeps (stupidly) attacking you inefficiently you can be at an economic advantage regardless of holding a little less territory. You can make a bunch of emps and trick the enemy with that. You can use a small porced area as a base to repair.
Many of these tactics require the enemy to not be too good, but they can work against lesser skilled opponents. Also since static defences are much cheaper for their firepower and hp, there are just about always some places they are useful. If only to decrease the micro you need to do to defend your base. (Like stopping fast weak attackers.)

@manored: Well, people should at least try it. Why? Because being afraid to lose personally is a bad thing, because it can make you a better player.

[manored]

Unleash you are outnumbered from start or feeling lazy at the moment, tactics that require your enemy to be a not-so-good player are no good: Why porc and make a nuke against a bad player if, since he is a bad player, I can expand with ease and kick his ass a lot earlier?

There is a difference between being afraid of trying and having no desire to try.

[Tribulexrenamed]

God dammit. Defence is ausome. You get to watch shit get pulverized as it tried to penetrate you.

I will show you replays of SiG pwning people on DSD by attacking. We would attack on all fronts simultaneously. You cannot in any way outporc that.

However, some dumbass might initiate a porc war by making 7 hlts, and then the gameplay of CA and BA gets screwed over. CA not as much

[Jasper1984]

@Manored: Good point, as another porcing thing that does also work against non-noob players, it can be used for making the front line solid.
Really, i was a little pissed about Tribulex stating this and that without really saying anything. When you decide anything, it has all kinds of effects on other things then porcing.

[Gota]

The top part of DSD is porcy.
When you play 5v5 DSD it will and should be porcy on all fronts.
if you play com ends its different,you can try and press one place with a few players to get a com that is pushing forward.
If its not com ends it must be porcy.
You have 4-6 players walking commanders to the front,of course it will be porcy.Nothing wrong about it.Go t2,go air.Its called strategy and it requires a bit more brain power and a bit less button mashing.
Just problem is that that many tools you needs ot break porcs are impossible ot use.T1 artillery is unusable,guardian is unusable.All your allowed to do to break a porc in ba is pile up even more flash or stumpy and go go go.

[Crayfish]

Porcing is really hard on CA. Believe me, I've tried.

[El Capitano]

If somebody porcs on CA, I'll just bring a bunch of arty to the mix. Your farm of turrets is useless as it can't reach me and my army will protect the lesser forces you bring to attack my arty. I'll then reclaim the middle and bring more arty. Either that or go air and just drop 20 flashes in your base.