zpock, you have to give supcom time to get conversions. I am sure it will get mods. I am sure they will have larger teams etc because the player base is larger so it stands to reason that many projects will be done for supcom.
eitherway, supcom currently is more polished then spring, has a better gui and a singleplayer game. Many things spring does not.
Yes gpg, will drop support quickly as they have with all of their other games. How many DSII mods were there? and I am not talking minor tweak mods.. there were very little this coming from someone who LOVES THAT GAME AND HATES THAT THERE IS NO MOD COMMUNITY FOR IT!
anyway, people are going to be drawn to supcoms polish and pretier graphics. soon, even I will need to upgrade to a new card to get the most out of spring. UNLESS they optimize sm3 in the next release. anyway, point is we do not know anything about the resync progress or even how much of that has been made.
In my opinion, spring is one of the best things to make content for.. I hate calling gundam a mod.. it is all my work as far as I am concerned it is a game for the spring engine. Mod is so denigrating for gundam.. Anyway, Point is that spring has it's idiosyncrasies but I love it's ease of use. I could go out and program an engine, game system, netcode, physics, sound etc... and 5 years later do gundam. Or I can do it HERE and NOW in the spring engine. It is a very real and wonderful opportunity.
I am going to continue to push with other moders and continue to push myself for better and better effects. IMO, that is something that can draw a lot of people in. It is up to the game and them for us to retain players.
so to sum up:
Supcom is a professional game but in my opinion, it's effects are shoddy at best, and dawn of war and C&C3 are prettier. Smoth is helping by encouraging more eyecandy and working on gundam. He is helping where he can with mappers and does offer help to other mods with the effects system.
what are some of you doing?
Mass Promotion Plan
Moderator: Moderators
Well, concerning polish...
Spring could use a "Click here" downloaded installer that does everything for the poor n00bs, IE install spring, all mods, Ais, everything automatically. Then a typical familiar start-screen like all commercial games have. You know, "start tutorial", "start campaign", "multiplayer" etc etc buttons. Oh yes tutorial and campaigns would need to be made for this in the first place.
Of course this is sort of a double edged sword. Im sure many people here prefer the way it is. If you know how spring works the current system is very functional... but a poor n00b to
1. find out about unknown files
2. navigate UF
3. download the right files
4. unzip them in the right folders
5. not give up when things seemingly randomly starts craching when he's trying something new
well u get it...
For example, I tried to get NTAI working today myself (not fiddeled around with ai:s to this point), and was unsuccesful. The first thing n00bs would want to do is play easy games vs the ai not multiplayer... Of course he could startup XTA with the included KAI or AAI right away, but then he has to figure out to start a multiplayer game (VERY scary for a n00b) then figure out how to add bots... (there is a good wiki page I think, but only 1/10 noobs will find that).
Ok then you have to consider that, its best if new people kind of learn how to do stuff in spring in the long run. If they get handheld too much maybe they'll get lazy and won't figure stuff they need to get new mods etc. We dont want 2million more speedmettalers... But there's no doubt a huge amount of people turned off by the pretty ugly complexivity.
Of course, I'm aware that most stuff is kind of WIP by someone using his free time wich free's them from any responsibility to make their stuff user friendly so plz dont take this as critisicm of specific things like NTAI, it's just an example.
Spring could use a "Click here" downloaded installer that does everything for the poor n00bs, IE install spring, all mods, Ais, everything automatically. Then a typical familiar start-screen like all commercial games have. You know, "start tutorial", "start campaign", "multiplayer" etc etc buttons. Oh yes tutorial and campaigns would need to be made for this in the first place.
Of course this is sort of a double edged sword. Im sure many people here prefer the way it is. If you know how spring works the current system is very functional... but a poor n00b to
1. find out about unknown files
2. navigate UF
3. download the right files
4. unzip them in the right folders
5. not give up when things seemingly randomly starts craching when he's trying something new
well u get it...
For example, I tried to get NTAI working today myself (not fiddeled around with ai:s to this point), and was unsuccesful. The first thing n00bs would want to do is play easy games vs the ai not multiplayer... Of course he could startup XTA with the included KAI or AAI right away, but then he has to figure out to start a multiplayer game (VERY scary for a n00b) then figure out how to add bots... (there is a good wiki page I think, but only 1/10 noobs will find that).
Ok then you have to consider that, its best if new people kind of learn how to do stuff in spring in the long run. If they get handheld too much maybe they'll get lazy and won't figure stuff they need to get new mods etc. We dont want 2million more speedmettalers... But there's no doubt a huge amount of people turned off by the pretty ugly complexivity.
Of course, I'm aware that most stuff is kind of WIP by someone using his free time wich free's them from any responsibility to make their stuff user friendly so plz dont take this as critisicm of specific things like NTAI, it's just an example.
NTai is a particularly poor example as its under heavy development work in progress at the moment. However the issues you raise have been noticed already and action plans are in progress.Zpock wrote:Well, concerning polish...
Spring could use a "Click here" downloaded installer that does everything ......
For example, I tried to get NTAI working today myself (not fiddeled .....
I am trying to condense the wiki into useful and visually appealing sections, but I haven't started my editing run. Essentially I'll work from minor entries back, keeping the same front page categories, but somewhat better organized.
Cup and I are working on a bot and message to PM first time users with basic instructions and tips, but I've got that on the back-burner at this moment.
I'm also looking into a front-end for the lobby and, incidentally, Spring Single Player. It would load up, much like the first screen of Spring Single Player, and give you access to different buttons which would be active depending on whether you had the necessary files. So, in theory, Campaign would show as "Campaign (Coming Soon!)" but if it did work would lead you to a screen to pick your mod which would only show those you had missions/campaigns for, and then would allow you to select the missions/campaigns.
We can't give someone all the mods and AI files, it isn't feasible in terms of space. I have over eight hundred MB of mods, and I don't have all the mod files I've ever downloaded. However, I'm looking into a dynamic background downloader if you want, say, the Beginner's E&E package - NTAI config, E&E, three maps of varying sizes.
I'm also considering expanding the in-client help options, though this is going somewhat far.
Cup and I are working on a bot and message to PM first time users with basic instructions and tips, but I've got that on the back-burner at this moment.
I'm also looking into a front-end for the lobby and, incidentally, Spring Single Player. It would load up, much like the first screen of Spring Single Player, and give you access to different buttons which would be active depending on whether you had the necessary files. So, in theory, Campaign would show as "Campaign (Coming Soon!)" but if it did work would lead you to a screen to pick your mod which would only show those you had missions/campaigns for, and then would allow you to select the missions/campaigns.
We can't give someone all the mods and AI files, it isn't feasible in terms of space. I have over eight hundred MB of mods, and I don't have all the mod files I've ever downloaded. However, I'm looking into a dynamic background downloader if you want, say, the Beginner's E&E package - NTAI config, E&E, three maps of varying sizes.
I'm also considering expanding the in-client help options, though this is going somewhat far.
then ignore them.GusBus wrote:yea i know, its just to many people are complaining. I WISH THEY WOULD SHUT UP
if you are not going to ignore them then explain what I just explained.
I get tired of it to but in all honesty Supreme commander is not spring and vice versa. I may not like SUPCOM but that does not explain why a supcom mod isn't happening.
See for a mod to happen someone has to put a looooooooong time into it... which means why? why would someone make a supcom imitation mod when there is already a game that is 100% that mod. Sorry, spring isn't supcom, there is no point in spending all the time making such a failure.
If it was something new, I would be all for it but we have supcom enough in the TA:Styled mods.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
On the other hand, SupCom does bring some fresh ideas which I have no qualms about using.
Upgrading mexxes is an excellent way to ensure resource mechanisms ramp up with little micro.
Systematic commander upgrades mean that your commander doesn't have to be uber powerful at the start of the game, and uber weak at the end of the game, etc.
Upgrading mexxes is an excellent way to ensure resource mechanisms ramp up with little micro.
Systematic commander upgrades mean that your commander doesn't have to be uber powerful at the start of the game, and uber weak at the end of the game, etc.
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MahrinSkel
- Posts: 17
- Joined: 23 Mar 2007, 01:27
Okay, where to start?
1) Forget SupCom and the rumored sale of the TA universe to Westwood, they are irrelevant to what you're doing here. Watch what they do for ideas like you would any other RTS franchise, but don't get your underwear in a twist over it.
2) Stability and ease of use are all important, the easier it is for someone to just take the game engine and *go*, the better (I'm talking mostly about players here, but it applies to modders/scripters as well). Maps, mods, total conversions, single player campaigns, every hoop the end user has to jump through in order to have fun is another headache he doesn't need and generally won't bother to jump through. Ideally, he should browse his way to a piece of content that seems interesting, make one click, and then it should be on automatic.
3) You want PR, you can get it, in a hurry, if the product (and even though this is GPL'd, it's a product) is really worthy. I could have you getting more attention from the professional, independant, and amateur game development community, as well as that portion of the gaming press that cares about what they are doing, than you could handle, in a matter of weeks from a few postings. But you're not ready. When you are, it won't matter much what you, I, or anyone else does or doesn't do, once the right channels are spreading the news.
4) Single-player scripting needs a major boost, right now even if you know Lua you're going to be tearing your hair out in short order because the engine focuses very heavily on multiplayer and much of what you need to create a single-player campaign is either missing or very primitive (I'm talking about stuff like tying triggers to player actions like their first unit of X type, the first time they move a unit Y distance from their start point, support for tutorials, interactive monologues, and so on). I understand why, multiplayer is what has created the community that has so long out lasted and out shone it's beginnings, but multiplayer doesn't bring in new players, single player does.
I know this is a labor of love, and you probably won't take kindly to someone parachuting in out of nowhere and telling you how to do things, but I've got intellectual tourette's, I can't have an idea without immediately sharing it. So take it or leave it, discuss it or flame it, I'm not going to be bothered either way.
--Dave
1) Forget SupCom and the rumored sale of the TA universe to Westwood, they are irrelevant to what you're doing here. Watch what they do for ideas like you would any other RTS franchise, but don't get your underwear in a twist over it.
2) Stability and ease of use are all important, the easier it is for someone to just take the game engine and *go*, the better (I'm talking mostly about players here, but it applies to modders/scripters as well). Maps, mods, total conversions, single player campaigns, every hoop the end user has to jump through in order to have fun is another headache he doesn't need and generally won't bother to jump through. Ideally, he should browse his way to a piece of content that seems interesting, make one click, and then it should be on automatic.
3) You want PR, you can get it, in a hurry, if the product (and even though this is GPL'd, it's a product) is really worthy. I could have you getting more attention from the professional, independant, and amateur game development community, as well as that portion of the gaming press that cares about what they are doing, than you could handle, in a matter of weeks from a few postings. But you're not ready. When you are, it won't matter much what you, I, or anyone else does or doesn't do, once the right channels are spreading the news.
4) Single-player scripting needs a major boost, right now even if you know Lua you're going to be tearing your hair out in short order because the engine focuses very heavily on multiplayer and much of what you need to create a single-player campaign is either missing or very primitive (I'm talking about stuff like tying triggers to player actions like their first unit of X type, the first time they move a unit Y distance from their start point, support for tutorials, interactive monologues, and so on). I understand why, multiplayer is what has created the community that has so long out lasted and out shone it's beginnings, but multiplayer doesn't bring in new players, single player does.
I know this is a labor of love, and you probably won't take kindly to someone parachuting in out of nowhere and telling you how to do things, but I've got intellectual tourette's, I can't have an idea without immediately sharing it. So take it or leave it, discuss it or flame it, I'm not going to be bothered either way.
--Dave
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MahrinSkel
- Posts: 17
- Joined: 23 Mar 2007, 01:27
Atari is holding a fire sale on a lot of their IP, similar to what happened to 3D0 a few years ago, and there's a rumor making the rounds in the development community that Westwood is interested in Total Annihilation. Some of my friends passed it to me because they know I loved TA. To Atari TA is just a backcatalog asset they picked up third hand that they've never done anything with, so if someone wanted to buy it they'd probably sell. But it's strictly rumor.
--Dave
--Dave
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desertlynx
- Posts: 23
- Joined: 26 Jul 2006, 09:46
while everyone else is, I'll just throw in my 2c as an experienced player/non-coder:
I'd have to agree with the point on the single player, but I reckon all you need is enough single player to show players the basics of how to play the game.
Being 1) free 2) bloody good and 3) multiplayer is enough for many players to struggle through the steep learning curve.
The wiki definitely needs improvements, particularly in the areas of simply 'how to play' and other extreme basics. unfortunately, people tend only to write wikis on interesting topics (ever surfed wikipedia on tv shows?).
I'm seriously worried about the difficulty in downloading maps and mods. I can understand Iamacup's issues relating to an integrated downloader in the lobby, but this must be resolved somehow.
I myself, favour the p2p option, despite the issues with asynchronous download, particularly if players were seeding maps on BT by default. for most of us, upload bandwidth is free and having Idle BT would be fine by me.
anyway, rant aside, I'd be happy to help (a little) with the wiki and with general grassroots promotion when consensus is achieved.
I'd have to agree with the point on the single player, but I reckon all you need is enough single player to show players the basics of how to play the game.
Being 1) free 2) bloody good and 3) multiplayer is enough for many players to struggle through the steep learning curve.
The wiki definitely needs improvements, particularly in the areas of simply 'how to play' and other extreme basics. unfortunately, people tend only to write wikis on interesting topics (ever surfed wikipedia on tv shows?).
I'm seriously worried about the difficulty in downloading maps and mods. I can understand Iamacup's issues relating to an integrated downloader in the lobby, but this must be resolved somehow.
I myself, favour the p2p option, despite the issues with asynchronous download, particularly if players were seeding maps on BT by default. for most of us, upload bandwidth is free and having Idle BT would be fine by me.
anyway, rant aside, I'd be happy to help (a little) with the wiki and with general grassroots promotion when consensus is achieved.
Alright, Smoth has been kind enough to provide me with a measure of hosting for continued discussion of this. This may be an issue for some of you, and in that case, feel free to contribute here. Otherwise, take yourself to the Community Promotion subforum on Smoth's Site.
I intend now to advertise everything I can, in as many places as I can. All I need is a little support.
I intend now to advertise everything I can, in as many places as I can. All I need is a little support.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
You don't think it's a bit premature?neddiedrow wrote:Alright, Smoth has been kind enough to provide me with a measure of hosting for continued discussion of this. This may be an issue for some of you, and in that case, feel free to contribute here. Otherwise, take yourself to the Community Promotion subforum on Smoth's Site.
I intend now to advertise everything I can, in as many places as I can. All I need is a little support.