Ah, you wrote a post before you'd even read what I'd written.
However, you cant deny what i said. A lot of ti ahs been mentioned by many people over the last 2 years repeatedly. Infact one of the flaws with asteroids and OTA FF methodology in spring was taken by Optimus prime on one of your maps.
Stratos was a great map. It was new, pretty, innovative, and its a shame maps like that havent been made and played since.
Nobody eats carved apples made of wood, but is that justification for saying nobody would eat an apple carved out of candyfloss? And if there candy floss apple hadnt been made yet would it then be right to say nobody eats candy floss apples therefore there's no point in making them?
People dont play FF as much because the maps suck. Nobody makes decent FF maps because nobody plays FF because the existing maps suck. Its a cycle, and you're perpetuating it using circular logic.
Space maps and spring :: part 2 What went wrong?
Moderator: Moderators
people dont play FF, not cause the maps suck, but because a great majority of people dont want to play FF, and good maps arent going to sway them... There are people who dislike the balance, dislike the concept, or just dont care.. etc.. they are not playing it due to a lack of maps.. THIS HAS NEVER BEEN NOR IS THE ISSUE...
stop using other arguments.. I dont care if its logical or not..
If mappers dont want to make space maps because mappers dont play FF then well your shit out of luck, and making slighly offensive threads telling the mappers they dont know what the fuck they are doing is not condusive to getting them to begin making space maps..
People make stuff they like, otherwise they dont waste time making it.. this has nothing to do with apples, oranges or some other obscure similie or philisophical argument.. were not arguing about the validity of not making space maps, WE ARE TELLING YOU WHY IT IS NOT DONE, its not a debatable topic.. It is not done for X reason.. whether X reason makes sense is irrelevent..
stop using other arguments.. I dont care if its logical or not..
If mappers dont want to make space maps because mappers dont play FF then well your shit out of luck, and making slighly offensive threads telling the mappers they dont know what the fuck they are doing is not condusive to getting them to begin making space maps..
People make stuff they like, otherwise they dont waste time making it.. this has nothing to do with apples, oranges or some other obscure similie or philisophical argument.. were not arguing about the validity of not making space maps, WE ARE TELLING YOU WHY IT IS NOT DONE, its not a debatable topic.. It is not done for X reason.. whether X reason makes sense is irrelevent..
No I didnt. My first post was originally like 5x as long and when I edited it down I accidentally deleted the last part. (Along with a few other quotes)AF wrote:Ah, you wrote a post before you'd even read what I'd written.
However, you cant deny what i said. A lot of ti ahs been mentioned by many people over the last 2 years repeatedly. Infact one of the flaws with asteroids and OTA FF methodology in spring was taken by Optimus prime on one of your maps.
Stratos was a great map. It was new, pretty, innovative, and its a shame maps like that havent been made and played since.
Nobody eats carved apples made of wood, but is that justification for saying nobody would eat an apple carved out of candyfloss? And if there candy floss apple hadnt been made yet would it then be right to say nobody eats candy floss apples therefore there's no point in making them?
People dont play FF as much because the maps suck. Nobody makes decent FF maps because nobody plays FF because the existing maps suck. Its a cycle, and you're perpetuating it using circular logic.
People don't play FF because of their own reasons. By your flawed logic EE would have a ton of players just because of the all the beautiful maps for it.
Stratos is a great map? Have you even opened it up in spring? Its not even a completed map: its a proof of concept. It isn't even a playable map.
Thanks for reminding me why I stay away from internet discussions. Since your so concerned with the quality of FF maps: why don't you make a decent one yourself??
BTW deep space conflict and asteroid belt both have more downloads than the majority (not the super popular ones of course) of ground maps... And I see FF games open with them in the lobby every once in awhile. So some people are obviously playing them..
You Fail.
who says I havent?
Do you ask people with big qualifications to prove them by writting giant works of art for you? My web design lecturer knows flash inside out yet admits he could never apply those skills to make an uber flash movie. And what about me? why should I make a space map inbetween AFLobby, 4 uni courseworks, NTai, toolkit, and a truckload of other things in real life. Now really, have I not done enough for this community that I have to go and spend 2 to 3 weeks on an omgwtfpwn space map? I'd certainly like to do it but I just dont have the time or resources.
And who are you to lecture me on how the compiled wisdom of numerous people across 2 years of FF mapping is flawed and thus its interpretation? Points that even you yourself have raised in the past whcih your now saying are irrelevant.
As for EE, did you read the other posts at all? Have you listened to smoth and fang lately? They've been squashing that arguement repeatedly for the last 2 weeks over and over again.
I tried to point out how I feel space maps need to be done based on what I know and what those in this community have told me together with my own artistic experience. I dont appreciate someone coming in and being rude and treating an article as a flame.
As for stratos, I rank stratos aesthetically. And as you said yourself, stratos is a proof of concept map, barely playable, so what does that say about the other FF maps?
Do you ask people with big qualifications to prove them by writting giant works of art for you? My web design lecturer knows flash inside out yet admits he could never apply those skills to make an uber flash movie. And what about me? why should I make a space map inbetween AFLobby, 4 uni courseworks, NTai, toolkit, and a truckload of other things in real life. Now really, have I not done enough for this community that I have to go and spend 2 to 3 weeks on an omgwtfpwn space map? I'd certainly like to do it but I just dont have the time or resources.
And who are you to lecture me on how the compiled wisdom of numerous people across 2 years of FF mapping is flawed and thus its interpretation? Points that even you yourself have raised in the past whcih your now saying are irrelevant.
As for EE, did you read the other posts at all? Have you listened to smoth and fang lately? They've been squashing that arguement repeatedly for the last 2 weeks over and over again.
I tried to point out how I feel space maps need to be done based on what I know and what those in this community have told me together with my own artistic experience. I dont appreciate someone coming in and being rude and treating an article as a flame.
As for stratos, I rank stratos aesthetically. And as you said yourself, stratos is a proof of concept map, barely playable, so what does that say about the other FF maps?
let me make something clear. NOWHERE did I say FF was a brilliant or perfectly balanced mod. NOWHERE did I place the sole blame on maps, NOWHERE did I say that decent maps would sway people to play FF, because believe it or not space mods are not confined to FF and there is much potential.
My main point is that space maps can look good in spring, how, and where we went wrong in the past. The balance issues of FF are not the same thing, these are another set of issues that contribute to FFs popularity or lack of it, and these are not the intended subject of my threads.
So please stop harassing me over it.
My main point is that space maps can look good in spring, how, and where we went wrong in the past. The balance issues of FF are not the same thing, these are another set of issues that contribute to FFs popularity or lack of it, and these are not the intended subject of my threads.
So please stop harassing me over it.
not true.
Once trepans map lua stuff is here, we'll have greater support for space maps than Star trek armada 1+2. And with the correct lua widget (possible now), we can have full 3D movement and construction of units. All thats left is for units building other untis factory style and we'll ahve all the prerequisites for a HW1 clone.
Once trepans map lua stuff is here, we'll have greater support for space maps than Star trek armada 1+2. And with the correct lua widget (possible now), we can have full 3D movement and construction of units. All thats left is for units building other untis factory style and we'll ahve all the prerequisites for a HW1 clone.
oh dear...this discussion turned into some sort of kindergarten war.
People, why can't you discuss things on the factual level, without thinking about "who is the true maker of FF?" "why is FF as popular as BA or AA?"
YES, there are few maps for space mods and YES this could be a reason for the minor popularity of space mods, so what?
What does this have to do with the fucking creator of FF?
I can't believe it...
People, why can't you discuss things on the factual level, without thinking about "who is the true maker of FF?" "why is FF as popular as BA or AA?"
YES, there are few maps for space mods and YES this could be a reason for the minor popularity of space mods, so what?
What does this have to do with the fucking creator of FF?
I can't believe it...
I like playing FF, gameplay is not perfect, but it is a good variety to all (very similar) ground based mods like BA, AA and xta (E&E and so on are great too).
I would love to make a new space mod, with other models and so on, but I dont have the time to do that
(especially because I need to learn all the stuff to create such a mod)
Same applies to space maps...
What I wanted to say:
The space mod lovers are a very tiny group inside spring community, but that doesnt say, it wont grow ever more.
So why are you dooming the poor little guys who like these mods?
If one of them cries, that he wants a way to create proper space maps, help if you can, if you are not interested in this topic, let him cry!
But dont start such kindergarten wars, because you dont like FF and want to forbid others to ask for it.
If you dont want to support it, just ignore. Is this so hard?
It almost makes the impression of a witch-hunt to me here...
All what i want to demand are the basic rules of a community
PS:
Sorry, this is too difficult for my bad english
I would love to make a new space mod, with other models and so on, but I dont have the time to do that
(especially because I need to learn all the stuff to create such a mod)Same applies to space maps...
What I wanted to say:
The space mod lovers are a very tiny group inside spring community, but that doesnt say, it wont grow ever more.
So why are you dooming the poor little guys who like these mods?
If one of them cries, that he wants a way to create proper space maps, help if you can, if you are not interested in this topic, let him cry!
But dont start such kindergarten wars, because you dont like FF and want to forbid others to ask for it.
If you dont want to support it, just ignore. Is this so hard?
It almost makes the impression of a witch-hunt to me here...
All what i want to demand are the basic rules of a community
PS:
Sorry, this is too difficult for my bad english
smoth, FF is not the only space mod, optimus is nto its onyl player, and what i ahve said in ym two threads is not that this is how you make FF maps and we should do that, ratehr that FF does it all wrong, and that if we were t go about it then this method would eb better and this si why the current method is made fo phail.
everybodies taking these two threads and thinking "AF thinks we need Ff maps and we need to make FF maps and this is how we should make them and this is the sole reason why FF isnt played and that AF thinks this because optimus wants FF maps and that optimus' map request is directly relevant even though the majority of this was written on smoths forums before optimus even requested maps" which is a laod of rubbish.
Space maps in spring are made of fail. Space mods in spring as a result are made of fail too, and the root cause that started it is OTA FF maps and game mechanics which gave arise to platform mentality, and bad methodology. I dont care if optimus' version of FF plays slow, thats besides the point, thats not space mdos in spring, thats optimus' FF mod in spring, go dscuss that in an FF thread, it doesnt belong here, this thread is about space maps in general not space maps specially made for the mod FF, if you'd read what I'd said you'd realize I think space maps for platform orientated mods are made of fail.
You've all ruined my threads with all this FF aurguement that has no place here. Those sorts of arguements belonged in optimus' map request thread, this thread should have been discussing pros and cons and additions to why the current maps fail and how they can be improved, not the pros and cons of FF and the forum politics of a certain set of people.
everybodies taking these two threads and thinking "AF thinks we need Ff maps and we need to make FF maps and this is how we should make them and this is the sole reason why FF isnt played and that AF thinks this because optimus wants FF maps and that optimus' map request is directly relevant even though the majority of this was written on smoths forums before optimus even requested maps" which is a laod of rubbish.
Space maps in spring are made of fail. Space mods in spring as a result are made of fail too, and the root cause that started it is OTA FF maps and game mechanics which gave arise to platform mentality, and bad methodology. I dont care if optimus' version of FF plays slow, thats besides the point, thats not space mdos in spring, thats optimus' FF mod in spring, go dscuss that in an FF thread, it doesnt belong here, this thread is about space maps in general not space maps specially made for the mod FF, if you'd read what I'd said you'd realize I think space maps for platform orientated mods are made of fail.
You've all ruined my threads with all this FF aurguement that has no place here. Those sorts of arguements belonged in optimus' map request thread, this thread should have been discussing pros and cons and additions to why the current maps fail and how they can be improved, not the pros and cons of FF and the forum politics of a certain set of people.
Mate, the fact of the matter is that Space maps in Spring will always look and *bad*, if not play bad:
1) TA interface didn't have camera rotation. This means that you can fake depth of stuff with good rendering techniques.
2) Spring does have camera rotation. This means that not matter how well your 'roids are rendered, they will look like pieces of junk when viewed from the wrong angle (and there's about 32,000 of those).
3) If I use features to 'fake' platforms/roids/suns/etc - the collision detection sucks. You can't pathfind on them/around them very well. And again, planes will land on them and seem to be magically levitating oddly.
So where's the argument? Space maps in Spring that look good and play good aren't possible (save for the "giant empty area of deep space" theme).
There's plenty of other good map types competent mapmakers should be focusing on. Why hasn't anyone tried to duplicate LathanStanley's uberleet Swamp map?
1) TA interface didn't have camera rotation. This means that you can fake depth of stuff with good rendering techniques.
2) Spring does have camera rotation. This means that not matter how well your 'roids are rendered, they will look like pieces of junk when viewed from the wrong angle (and there's about 32,000 of those).
3) If I use features to 'fake' platforms/roids/suns/etc - the collision detection sucks. You can't pathfind on them/around them very well. And again, planes will land on them and seem to be magically levitating oddly.
So where's the argument? Space maps in Spring that look good and play good aren't possible (save for the "giant empty area of deep space" theme).
There's plenty of other good map types competent mapmakers should be focusing on. Why hasn't anyone tried to duplicate LathanStanley's uberleet Swamp map?
AF, its okay now, I think the last damned dude checked, what these threads meant.
I dont want to defend one side like AF, I just want you to notice, that this fucking behavior is ruining the whole community.
Checked?
To clarify:
FF is irrelevant
space maps are irrelevant
.
.
.
Its all about the fucking way you discussed this subimportant topic
I dont want to defend one side like AF, I just want you to notice, that this fucking behavior is ruining the whole community.
Checked?
To clarify:
FF is irrelevant
space maps are irrelevant
.
.
.
Its all about the fucking way you discussed this subimportant topic
But he hasnt got th point at all.
space maps CAN look good in spring. The problem is that they can enver look good using the current techniques, and you DONT need to fork the engine to change things.
Read part 1. Platform mentality is why asteroids look crap, and platform mentality is BAD, and I keep stressing this. I'm not advocating that platforms can look good, I'm advocating that we get rid of platforms entirely. I'm saying when we have asteroids, you mean asteroids big that you build ontop of, I'm saying no, I'm saying asteroid features that're reclaimed and harvested, with no buildings being built on ground at all, buildings homeworld style, that can move slowly and float in space.
space maps CAN look good in spring. The problem is that they can enver look good using the current techniques, and you DONT need to fork the engine to change things.
Read part 1. Platform mentality is why asteroids look crap, and platform mentality is BAD, and I keep stressing this. I'm not advocating that platforms can look good, I'm advocating that we get rid of platforms entirely. I'm saying when we have asteroids, you mean asteroids big that you build ontop of, I'm saying no, I'm saying asteroid features that're reclaimed and harvested, with no buildings being built on ground at all, buildings homeworld style, that can move slowly and float in space.
Again, space mods need aircraft with an iq boost. If aircraft ever get that,yeah gundam will get a space battle mutator.. we talked about it already remember!?!?
The thing is that the aircraft are fail.... so space mods are fail which then goes onto a map that is only partialy looking like space.. which is fal.. so 3 levels deep of fail means space maps should not even be a concern right now.
The thing is that the aircraft are fail.... so space mods are fail which then goes onto a map that is only partialy looking like space.. which is fal.. so 3 levels deep of fail means space maps should not even be a concern right now.