Bug found for balanced annihilation....Peewees dragons teeth

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 04 Feb 2007, 08:39

LordMatt wrote:BA is made by players, not modders Argh.

Funny, most of the time the TA:S moders... claim to be moders.

LordMatt wrote:That means their principle reason for being a part of spring is playing the game, not making a mod. They just happen to mod because there was a need for it and they know how to balance it from a player's perspective.

That is what they are doing, making a mod, while he was a bit harsh. I can understand his frustration. It is most anoying watching mods get developed by self proclaimed "moders" and not "players." The "moders" do not pull out all the stops and things suffer for it. I am not going to get into the whole argument about graphics, I have had TOO many people imply that mods like Gundam RTS with a lot of eye candy are little more then that. Although, I maintain that gundam is still in the works as I add new units, tweak the balance and all the while improve it's visual quality. I improve the graphics along the way!

I hate ta' tell you, but modding is my hobby, my REAL LIFE(R) is school and my family/GF. I take my hobby seriously and like Argh, I find the lack of full effort agitating at the least. Neither of us are saying that the TA:S "moders" are somehow less then us. We are frustrated because to us, a lot of moders stop at the halfway point and declare stuff complete, while they clearly have much further to go.

MadRat wrote:That's a little harsh there, argh. You probably have some background in the field whereas most people are hobbyists of a third nature.

This isn't a field, Argh is not a professional developer, he does it because he has a love for it. Same as Fang and I, yet we all completed much if not all of our own work. I know by TA standards Gundam and EE were finished a looooooong time ago. However, why stop at TA standards, there is this GREAT engine with all this potential.

I am not saying that the current team that has taken the clusterfrick that was AA and turned it into BA are not doing any work. However, with balance changes they could add effects, tweak a few easy things like dragons teeth as S3O. That isn't asking a lot, hell, THEY have a TEAM. So why not ask them to raise the bar a bit?

Note for those who missed it TA:S means any of the TA varients in spring

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 04 Feb 2007, 15:53

smoth wrote: Funny, most of the time the TA:S moders... claim to be moders.

The current BA team != Caydr...

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 04 Feb 2007, 20:00

ive invited a friend to this thread:

I've asked him to come since this thread is resolved... DTs are fixed end of story... and yes i realize im "backseat moderating" i feel that in this case its not a terrible action. So plz just lock this... for all our sakes.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 04 Feb 2007, 20:58

LordMatt wrote:The current BA team != Caydr...

smoth wrote: I am not saying that the current team that has taken the clusterfrick that was AA and turned it into BA are not doing any work. However, with balance changes they could add effects, tweak a few easy things like dragons teeth as S3O. That isn't asking a lot, hell, THEY have a TEAM. So why not ask them to raise the bar a bit?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 04 Feb 2007, 21:45

smoth wrote:
LordMatt wrote:The current BA team != Caydr...
smoth wrote: I am not saying that the current team that has taken the clusterfrick that was AA and turned it into BA are not doing any work. However, with balance changes they could add effects, tweak a few easy things like dragons teeth as S3O. That isn't asking a lot, hell, THEY have a TEAM. So why not ask them to raise the bar a bit?

Main problem is time atm... ( but every now and then i have some time and i do some work )

I blame the Real Life Monster....

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 04 Feb 2007, 21:59

that real life monster sucks, I say a +999 vorpal sword would be great but I checked ebay and there are none for sale!

Ya' know noize, as many people play BA, why is it that they will not lift a finger to help? It really burns my posterior end, why is it people like to play but when there is obvious need for help, and soo many backseat moders and or guys who expect us to give a flip about their opinion, funny how when there is work to be done it is a ghost town!

I honestly wish I could sit down and do effects for you but it would be a lot of time. however, adding effects to weapons should be easy now, I have released a TON of effects and when I release 1.11 of gundam there will be even more effects for the taking. All BA needs is someone implementing them... hell two or three people would be great, 1 on death explosions, 1 on missiles and another on lasers. ESP if you break the weapons into their own files. It took me a bit to replace the gundam weapons effects but I was replacing them as I went.

If you need, I can quick add in the gundam effects for you into BA but that would take some time because I have school and stuff. If you cannot get the effects done in 2 more weeks contact me and I will do a quick replace changing out the base effects, things like nuke, com explosion will be left alone though because I don't want to change them as I would have to write a complex system.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 04 Feb 2007, 22:16

smoth wrote:If you need, I can quick add in the gundam effects for you into BA but that would take some time because I have school and stuff. If you cannot get the effects done in 2 more weeks contact me and I will do a quick replace changing out the base effects, things like nuke, com explosion will be left alone though because I don't want to change them as I would have to write a complex system.

Well i think i won't have much time/energy to spend on BA the comming time. So if you could make a version with your effects applied, i would really like to see how it would work out. Day thinks your effects will be kool for BA, I didn't see them yet. Would really appreciate it if you could make such a version with a log where you added effects so we can test them quickly.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 04 Feb 2007, 22:37

It would have to be about 2 weeks from now.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 04 Feb 2007, 22:49

team colour DT...

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 04 Feb 2007, 23:01

I'm willing to volunteer for effect-replacement, me and saktoth too maybe.

Saktoth also plans to re-do Armor.txt as it's very messy and non-organized.

Big job really.

Oh just one thing - I need to know how to actually replace the effects

.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 04 Feb 2007, 23:03

I'm adding an fbi tag to scale 3do collisionspheres right now, should alleviate most problems.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 04 Feb 2007, 23:38

left: A20 wth default 0.5 aircraft collision sphere (tag not set)
right: B25C with CollisionSphereScale=10;

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 05 Feb 2007, 00:35

Ya' know noize, as many people play BA, why is it that they will not lift a finger to help?

Perhaps you havent noticed, we have been. We have been verymuch aware of how busy Day and Noize have been, and have started submitting code to make their job easier, and have volunteered to do any coding they tell us to. Fox has made a huge mutator with dozens of changes. Hell we were discussing just last night the need for new effects, but we were afraid that might be stepping on neddies toes (Wasnt he doing this?). Day/Noize still havent given us any feedback on whether or not any of the changes will be adopted (Other than splitting the BA and mutator thread, which gives us an ominous feeling they might all be ignored.

).

In the end though, gameplay takes precedence over pretties, otherwise we wouldnt be playing a 10 year old game.

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 05 Feb 2007, 00:35

Argh wrote:Spring's CAI unit-targetting code should prevent that last, mentioned problem- it prioritizes based on "what am I being told to shoot at, what's shooting at me, what's in LOS that is armed, what's available to shoot at period", IIRC.

whilst i am purely a player with 0 technical knowledge (albeit with a highly developed opinion on balance

) i was under the impression that units sometimes auto-targetted the enemy which would give them the most experience. This was the explanation given to me when i complained of buggy penetrator/shooter targetting; if they had to move to get a line of fire, they would retarget based on the above rules.

I could easily be wrong on this though...

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 05 Feb 2007, 00:39

pintle wrote:
Argh wrote:Spring's CAI unit-targetting code should prevent that last, mentioned problem- it prioritizes based on "what am I being told to shoot at, what's shooting at me, what's in LOS that is armed, what's available to shoot at period", IIRC.
whilst i am purely a player with 0 technical knowledge (albeit with a highly developed opinion on balance ) i was under the impression that units sometimes auto-targetted the enemy which would give them the most experience. This was the explanation given to me when i complained of buggy penetrator/shooter targetting; if they had to move to get a line of fire, they would retarget based on the above rules.

I could easily be wrong on this though...

Yep. And high metal value units give more exp.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 05 Feb 2007, 01:19

Saktoth wrote:In the end though, gameplay takes precedence over pretties, otherwise we wouldnt be playing a 10 year old game.

I SWEAR TO ALL THAT IS HOLY, UNHOLY, PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE, EXTRA DIMENSIONAL, SUBETERRAINIAN, EXTATSTENSIALIST, LOVCRAFTIAN, EMO, GOTH, JOCK, G-PUNK, WEABOO, PEDOFILE, NECROPHILE, CRYBABY, TOUGHGUY, RETARD, AVERAGE AND SUPERIOR IQS...

You people are so asinine, OMG, we cannot DO PRETTY and GAMEPLAY! OMGOSH!

Listen up junior, you just might learn something, it takes MAYBE, MAYBE, 10 minutes to start adding in effects... but OOOH effects mean that the gameplay will suffer!?!?! HARDLY, No, GAMEPLAY was taken care of by SPRING! It was taken care of 10 YEARS AGO! YOU are tweaking STATS not working ON GAMEPLAY. Guess what!?!? the big trick is!?!?! wanna know? Ok, here it is!

Say you are working on the GAMEPLAY of the cormort, you are changing a stat on his weapon... you add one line for the new effect system... so GUESS WHAT!?!? you can put it in WHILE you are modifying the weapon PROFILE OMGOSH HARD!

I mean really, what is that supposed to say? Because GUNDAM is prettier that it is inferior in GAMEPLAY? Are you trying to EVEN START IMPLYING THAT? Do you assume I just ADD effects and do not bother with balance!?!?!

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 05 Feb 2007, 01:42

form does follows function, HOWEVER, there is no reason that you cannot have both

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 05 Feb 2007, 02:04

Calm blue ocean, smoth.

I was talking about prioritizing the time a modder spends on development, that gameplay takes precedence over pretties. I was defending Day/Noizes decision to focus on gameplay. Did you not notice that i already said that we (We community, who you criticized for 'not being willing to lift a finger') are more than willing to put new fx into the game (As well as a range of bugfixes and other changes), and just need the go-ahead from Day/Noize?

I mean really, what is that supposed to say? Because GUNDAM is prettier that it is inferior in GAMEPLAY?

Gundam is a great game. I enjoy it. Ive always said that.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 05 Feb 2007, 02:24

WHAT the frack are you people still tweaking in BA, I mean seriously, you have had this stuff for a year or more what can you still need to tweak.

Let me put this way, When I started EE, AA had been around for about Half a year, it is now a YEAR LATER and you people are still balancing AA(BA) granted Caydr did dick up a whole bunch of stuff, but seriously WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE BALANCING.. I really want to know..

Maybe you BA people should consider not making a release until you have actually ironed out all the bugs/balance..

I really dont understand, its not like you guys have added any serious new features to the game, like fuel, or some new sort of weapon setup, or have added a serious number of units..

IT seems to me that you guys think that your own little opinions have become how balance should be and are thusly balancing based on opinion.. YOU cannot ever achieve perfect gameplay someone will always disagree slightly with what youve set up..

Its time for you people to stop tweaking the balance and start doing something else with the mod, or stop modding it period. You need to reach a point that will be your weve balanced this as well as we can and them move on..

zecrazyone · Post by **zecrazyone** » 05 Feb 2007, 05:28

if a mod has overpowered units, or totally unused units, it needs to be balanced. right now BA is close to being balanced, but it still has some OP units(croc,flash/gator), and some unused/almost useless units(triton, targeting facility). once there are no OP units and no useless units, it is balanced. so far it seems that EE and BA are the most balanced mods, if you try you could probably find lots of things that need to be balanced in any mod though. the reason BA is still balancing itself is because, since by far the most people play BA, more unbalanced units are found and then exploited.

im betting that if as many people that play BA play any other mod, a bunch of OP units will be found and exploited also. its only the fact that so few people play non-BA/AA mods that those mods dont have to rebalance as often

Spring RTS Engine

Bug found for balanced annihilation....Peewees dragons teeth