Supcom is teh suck

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 27 Nov 2006, 09:53

Bhaal wrote:yeah spamming one unit type is for noobs

go watch some replays from good players.... and you will see the usage of all types of units...

hehehehe, ya ok. In AA if you hardcore AK farm you can take down anything.

The exception would be if your opponant knew what you were doing and actively protected against it (meaning a lot of DT and LLT's/HLLT's.

300 ak's are hard to stop if you havn't prepared specifically just for it.

BTW why do all those "good" players typically stick with spamming flash Tanks and Mavs?

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 27 Nov 2006, 12:35

If Argh got some professional artist to make better units NB could compete with SC in the visuals department.

[starts rant]

No... if Argh gave a goshdarn about what other people think looks "cool", then I could compete with whatever I wanted to in the visual department. Having a pro modeler onboard would just speed things up.

Just because you don't like that I'm referencing 1950's Japanese tin toys and other obscure sources, for my own (admittedly bizarre) artistic amusement, and that I think conventional art and design in most modern games is terrifically unoriginal and boring... doesn't mean I suck. The new Knight should be proof enough of that, thanks...

Do you have any idea how completely tired one gets of dealing with gamers' boring, cliched, overdone, lame and completely, "yeah, I've seen this before" ideas about art after doing this for a decade? I've been working on art for video games for over 10 years now- several dozen projects, some major, some minor. I can make stuff that everybody would have to agree sits high on the "coolness" meter, without thinking about it. You did watch me take that high-poly reference shot from the Internet someone found and whip out the Strider in 5 hours, right? Or did you miss that bit? Or how the Springer was basically this Machinen Krieger model, only modified enough to avoid stealing Kow Yokoyama's IP?

And you know what? It's REALLY BORING TO ME. So, since I'm working for free, on my own time, and answer to nobody, please leave me alone about it, because it mainly just annoys me, honestly. You have NO IDEA how many times I've had to do "a really cool gun" or whatever for Mod X or Indie Game Y. So, like... cut me some slack. If I wanted to make NanoBlobs's art look super-slick, I would. Instead, I do things like prove what you can get out of less than 500 triangles and a good skin, because I get tired of reading posts by modeling noobs who are still very confused about how to actually do good work.

[/rant]

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 27 Nov 2006, 13:05

beta for reason.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 27 Nov 2006, 13:21

fact of the day: graphics dont mean squat unless your a sacka noob or playing it for the first 10 minutes. ie: people that leave refined spring mods for sackaballs supcom gameplay are not going to be much of a loss.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 27 Nov 2006, 13:30

Sorry, but I don't agree with you there. Graphics are one of the biggest things that sell games to players in the first place. And "sacka noobs" are the vast majority of gamers.

Who would be interested in SupCom at all, if it was using OTA-era graphics? Who would buy Counter-Strike 1.6, if they'd never heard of it, there wasn't a huge playerbase, and they just saw screenshots from the HL1 engine? Gimme a break, dude. We all know that graphics are important to most people. I just spent a month of my free time, shoving Spring's graphical wizardry to a new level. And I didn't do it because I thought it was some minor feature that just needed my special touch, k?

Maybe the hardcore would have bought it anyhow, given that ChrisT helped make a pretty good game with OTA, but they're hardly enough market to make a profit on an Indie title, let alone a AAA retail game... if graphics didn't matter, I would just make games that were purely conceptual, involved moving colored shapes around, and were totally about the game design. I don't bother even making that point, because I know darn well that people expect a game to at least be reasonably good looking.

[edit]And yes, I'm very tired and getting snappish. I will go to bed now...[/edit]

AF · Post by AF » 27 Nov 2006, 14:02

Look at the i-pod.

Manufacturer A makes a cool looking MP3 player, not particularly special, but it looks amazing.

Manufacturer B makes an MP3 player that's easy to sue, brilliant battery life, pretty much perfect, btu its ugly.

Manufacturer C starts an on-line music shop and tries to get users to buy from it when they buy a stock standard mp3 player they made

Apple makes a cool looking MP3 player with 100x the capacity of the current best, best quality sound, an on-line music store, and rolls everything up into one package and starts a big slick media blitz.

And people wonder why Apple has 70% of the MP3 market.

The odd thing is nobody has really learnt from the apple formula.

And they don't realize that this isn't just another MP3 player market thing. Apple knows this and its why the mobile phone industry is shitting their pants over the impending i-phone.

When you provide a game you must provide a balanced experience encompassing everything to be truly successful. Lobby AI graphics game play discussion updates advertisement. Brilliant graphics are a means to pulling users into that experience, and big companies use that experience to keep users in and tempt them with extras and other costs and goodies.

Argh doesn't aim nanoblobz at being successful, rather he aims it as simply being a very good example to help people.

Although, atm no spring mod is capable of doing this, since none of the modders (save Argh and KDR) have built any AI configs, None of the mods have front ends, and none of the mods have even attempted to skin the lobby accordingly. And there is next to nothing in advertisement.

Noize advertised Balanced Annihilation in the lobby sending a repeated message every half hour, and that got people playing the mod pretty quickly, and I always find the download count on NTai rises faster if I'm advertising it in #main.

btw KDR, there is a skirmish AI in supcom but its disabled by default. There's a patch/hack someone made somewhere that unlocks it.

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 27 Nov 2006, 14:10

How many TimeTakers has SupCom ? I always found that the final Mark for how good a Game is - if you have to do lots of uninteresting click-work, hours of useless Planing (because its rarely gives you a equal Advantage) a RealTime Strategy Game shows, what it is up too. How much Time do you really spend fighting (that includes Basedefenses - if those are long, the Buildingwork was worth it) ?

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 27 Nov 2006, 14:10

iPod and pretty?

My Creative Zen (5 gb) beat it twice by having more battery life, more space on the disk and about half the price. And they look like almost the same. Also the audio quality is way better. Apple is overrated anyway...

I agree on computer games and graphics. They don't have to be super super pretty for me, only the athmosphere has to be right. Hell I still play pixel games occasionally cause they're cool. But the vast majority of gamers want the best they can get and that's who you sell your games to.

AF · Post by AF » 27 Nov 2006, 14:26

Yah a lot of people prefer the look of the zen to the ipod, and the sound quality is arguable, however if ipod did not have the best sound then why hasn't the government launched a lawsuit over mis-advertising? Besides sound quality in the end comes down to what you put on there.

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 27 Nov 2006, 14:43

Quite frankly, all I cared about was the price (or my parents at that time, was a birthday present). And around that time you could get two Zen for one iPod (that was in May 2005).

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 27 Nov 2006, 14:46

ZEN ALL THE WAY. I hav a Zen touch and it rules... 2 years of flawless use.

BTW Sup com sux, I ont own it but I know it to be true.

aGorm

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 27 Nov 2006, 15:32

Iam installing it right now.
As long as it runs smooth and doesnt lag all too much Iam sure I'll have some fun with it

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 27 Nov 2006, 15:55

AF wrote:Yah a lot of people prefer the look of the zen to the ipod, and the sound quality is arguable, however if ipod did not have the best sound then why hasn't the government launched a lawsuit over mis-advertising? Besides sound quality in the end comes down to what you put on there.

Because the government has better things to do then launch 300 subjective content lawsuits a day. Fuck, if that was the way it works pepsi and coke would have both been sued out of existence right now, right along with just about every infomercial product ever. Hell, that oxiclean stuff is borderline useless as a cleaner unless you have very specific things you want to clean.

Licho · Post by **Licho** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:19

Supcom in it's current state really is teh shit..

On my spec (athlon 2500+, Geforce 6600GT, 2GB RAM) it runs below 5fps after several minutes of multiplayer game.

It takes ages to start multiplayer game (slow and stupid lobby system compared to TAS), and most of the games other people crash or disconnect.

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 27 Nov 2006, 17:05

Hm, is it normal that you can't play neither LAN nor against the AI?
Because the game just closes when clicking the "online gaming network" (or whatever its called)

Only buttons in the menu that are not grayed out are:
-online gaming
-options

Bhaal · Post by **Bhaal** » 27 Nov 2006, 18:16

maybe it s a multiplayer beta? without lan games and without ai s !
you need to start gpgnet.

i played 10 games today and had no crash!

i have 20 to 50 fps and it s playable^^

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 27 Nov 2006, 18:40

I know its a multiplayer beta..
but I read about people complaining about the unfinished, weak AI and also about being able to host lan-games.

When I start GPG.Multiplayer.Client.exe it crashs and I can fill out a crashreport...

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 27 Nov 2006, 18:51

Also, how are people posting replays http://www.gamereplays.org when the replay-button doesnt work?

ZellSF · Post by **ZellSF** » 27 Nov 2006, 19:07

You can probably get the replay button to work, and you can just directly launch the replays in %appdata%

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 27 Nov 2006, 22:14

Argh: If you're tired of it outsourcing sounds even more necessary

. I haven't seen your work outside of NB but NB is about on par with most mods (using the new Knight and Springer as a reference point), professional games are a bit above that (though I can understand if you don't want to put all your abilities into NB art, I was too lazy to make proper art for my mods, too, after all). I'm not saying you should redo NB to make it look better, I'm just saying the units are the only thing about NB that looks worse than Supcom.

Spring RTS Engine

Supcom is teh suck