Why spring doesnt qualify as an open source project
Moderator: Moderators
This problem needs fixing though. For smooth solving, I suggest splitting the problems:
1) Lobby on another server
Is there any way Betalord will be agreeing to move the lobby svr?
2) Betalord's behaviour
Betalord has the right to behave however he wishes, though, if it hurts Spring, I think the devs should try to, and are responsible for, at least trying to fix the problem. How do you guys think about this?
If the devs think this discussion won't work out the way it intended, plz explain and close the thread. A fix for the lobby svr is needed though, and will be asked for again if not being solved.
1) Lobby on another server
Is there any way Betalord will be agreeing to move the lobby svr?
2) Betalord's behaviour
Betalord has the right to behave however he wishes, though, if it hurts Spring, I think the devs should try to, and are responsible for, at least trying to fix the problem. How do you guys think about this?
If the devs think this discussion won't work out the way it intended, plz explain and close the thread. A fix for the lobby svr is needed though, and will be asked for again if not being solved.
- Deathblane
- Posts: 505
- Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 01:22
I agree with Deathblane.
I'd say just let Betalord do his thing and stop bugging and blaming him so much and for everything. I'm pretty sure he will do the right thing. The lobby lags, so what. It's not like it's going to be forever (or it's being called a feature and forgotten about).
Furthermore, people are doing something about it. Maybe he (or THEY, it's not that it's all his descision alone, or is it?) are working on a solution which does not involve a third party server, but instead it just takes some time to get done.
Of course taking either server as replacement is a quick solution, I have to agree, but all this betalord this, betalord that is a little bit silly, isn't it?
Imagine you were in the same position would get fed shit every other day... not fun.
I'd say just let Betalord do his thing and stop bugging and blaming him so much and for everything. I'm pretty sure he will do the right thing. The lobby lags, so what. It's not like it's going to be forever (or it's being called a feature and forgotten about).
Furthermore, people are doing something about it. Maybe he (or THEY, it's not that it's all his descision alone, or is it?) are working on a solution which does not involve a third party server, but instead it just takes some time to get done.
Of course taking either server as replacement is a quick solution, I have to agree, but all this betalord this, betalord that is a little bit silly, isn't it?
Imagine you were in the same position would get fed shit every other day... not fun.
- SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
I have to say that I too would like a more open and positive betalord, but some of these issues are a little more complicated then is immediately made out here. The instant concern with offloading lobby server is that we lose control over it if it explodes or goes down, and lobby client only supports one login at a time.
I've bugged AF to write multiple server login capabilities into AF lobby like most IRC clients have, but we'll see where that goes. As long as the commonly used lobby clients are as one dimensional as they are, connecting to multiple servers to play isn't really plausible for a user, and the concern of losing control over the official server if we offload it to another body is constantly present.
I trust cuppy, but the statement that "we have lots of servers up for donation and therefore there should be no lag on lobby" is a bit off, we can't dump community critical software onto servers that we have no control over the reliability of.
I've bugged AF to write multiple server login capabilities into AF lobby like most IRC clients have, but we'll see where that goes. As long as the commonly used lobby clients are as one dimensional as they are, connecting to multiple servers to play isn't really plausible for a user, and the concern of losing control over the official server if we offload it to another body is constantly present.
I trust cuppy, but the statement that "we have lots of servers up for donation and therefore there should be no lag on lobby" is a bit off, we can't dump community critical software onto servers that we have no control over the reliability of.
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
- SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Have you been using it 24 hours a day every day? Because that's what lobby servers get. That being said, like I already said, I trust cuppy, I think unknown is good enough to be used, but the fact still remains, we can't just accept any server donation and use it for service critical functions. A good amount of discernment needs to be used.Forboding Angel wrote:My comment was not an attack or flame vs betalord. It is the truth.
And as far as reliability goes... I havn't seen unknown-files.net going down recently...
I sure wish all the talented people contributing to spring could get along together. It pains me, as someone with no talents or resources to contribute to spring besides playing the game and hanging out in the lobby, to see the squabling that goes on at times between all the people who have made this game what it is.
I guess politics are a part of any human endevour, even one as cool as this game.

I completely understand this viewpoint. This is why I suggested the server.clan-sy.com forwarding technique (see my post on page 1); so the admins could quickly redirect back to the old server if needed.SwiftSpear wrote:The instant concern with offloading lobby server is that we lose control over it if it explodes or goes down, and lobby client only supports one login at a time.
BTW to everyone saying we are 'flaming beta,' goto the first page and read every sentence with the word beta. I think if you read the posts you'll realize that this definitely isn't intended to be a flamefest.
+1hrmph wrote:I don't understand involving the open source aspect in this discussion. (aside from Cup just trying to get people to read this :))
What I'm wondering is why the server has started lagging so much in the first place. It seems like it didn't start happening until this newest spring version; did hosts move, or some lobby code get changed (besides the obvious)? The svn, webpage, and lobby aren't on the same server; Hmm, well do they share the same bandwidth then?
I do think something needs to be done about the lag. The only argument I've seen for not moving to a better equipped computer is that you (spring devs, betalord, whoever) won't be in control of it. Well if having access to that machine isn't enough, why not using server.clan-sy.com (or whatever) to redirect to the 'new' lobby server. Then if for some strange reason the new host becomes unacceptable, switching back to the old server would be as easy as making server.clan-sy.com redirect back to the old servers. Personally I don't care who hosts the server (its not like they would get any recognition or monetary value for doing it), but anything done to improve the situation would be appreciated.
Fix the lag that's all we want.
Well not all we want, but meh
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Truth.hrmph wrote:I completely understand this viewpoint. This is why I suggested the server.clan-sy.com forwarding technique (see my post on page 1); so the admins could quickly redirect back to the old server if needed.SwiftSpear wrote:The instant concern with offloading lobby server is that we lose control over it if it explodes or goes down, and lobby client only supports one login at a time.
BTW to everyone saying we are 'flaming beta,' goto the first page and read every sentence with the word beta. I think if you read the posts you'll realize that this definitely isn't intended to be a flamefest.
Heh, someone mentions beta in a bad light and zomg! Everyone "Higher up" comes to his rescue. Kinda sad really. Is he incapable of defending himself? No one is even flaming him! Yet I'm regarded as too touchy *sheesh*. *Walks off shaking head*
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Unless you don't already know, unknown-files.net hosts all things spring. Giving gobs and gobs of bandwidth as well as server space to the spring community en masse.Chojin wrote:I don't want to offend anyone... But the lobby is kind of an IRC server... Do you guys really want to trust just anyone to host it? Maybe the guys deciding take that privacy concern seriously.
So honestly, I don't think trust is much of an issue here... More like arrogance.
some good points have been raised, and i doubt betalord will post here untill this has turned into a full blown flame fest and is horribly off topic.
the only thing that wories me is betalords reluctance to use anything third party, even unknown files is not to be used for the inbuilt downloads because it is not on betalords servers, and this is the soel reason that the inclient downloads do not work. NOT because i refused, i personaly believe the same thing is happening here and i thought bringing it to the public was better than just not......
im not saying anymore on the subject other than, fix the lag any way possible, if that is just a simple recode of the server then go ahead.
/me waits.
the only thing that wories me is betalords reluctance to use anything third party, even unknown files is not to be used for the inbuilt downloads because it is not on betalords servers, and this is the soel reason that the inclient downloads do not work. NOT because i refused, i personaly believe the same thing is happening here and i thought bringing it to the public was better than just not......
im not saying anymore on the subject other than, fix the lag any way possible, if that is just a simple recode of the server then go ahead.
/me waits.
- Tim Blokdijk
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18
Maybe we can better delay this discussion until this new sub-forum for the "dev's" is active. (Tobi?)
Until then use the mailinglist.
I don't expect dev's to start a flamewar among themselves and if it happens it can be easily mediated.
And btw I have a lot of respect for Betalord, even *if* he would be inflexible then so be it, I don't care, I'm just like to prevent this atmosphere where people seem to assume a lot about others and where miscommunication leads to more assumptions and frustrations. It's a downward spiral that needs to be broken.
Until then use the mailinglist.
I don't expect dev's to start a flamewar among themselves and if it happens it can be easily mediated.
And btw I have a lot of respect for Betalord, even *if* he would be inflexible then so be it, I don't care, I'm just like to prevent this atmosphere where people seem to assume a lot about others and where miscommunication leads to more assumptions and frustrations. It's a downward spiral that needs to be broken.
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Agreed, and that would be wise, however, it wouldn't kill betalord to reply would it?Tim Blokdijk wrote:Maybe we can better delay this discussion until this new sub-forum for the "dev's" is active. (Tobi?)
Until then use the mailinglist.
I don't expect dev's to start a flamewar among themselves and if it happens it can be easily mediated.
And btw I have a lot of respect for Betalord, even *if* he would be inflexible then so be it, I don't care, I'm just like to prevent this atmosphere where people seem to assume a lot about others and where miscommunication leads to more assumptions and frustrations. It's a downward spiral that needs to be broken.