Why spring doesnt qualify as an open source project

Post by **jcnossen** » 12 Oct 2006, 00:22

So if we agree that posting and not posting both don't work, why post? Attacking someone in public is very annoying.

BvDorp · Post by **BvDorp** » 12 Oct 2006, 00:35

This problem needs fixing though. For smooth solving, I suggest splitting the problems:

1) Lobby on another server

Is there any way Betalord will be agreeing to move the lobby svr?

2) Betalord's behaviour

Betalord has the right to behave however he wishes, though, if it hurts Spring, I think the devs should try to, and are responsible for, at least trying to fix the problem. How do you guys think about this?

If the devs think this discussion won't work out the way it intended, plz explain and close the thread. A fix for the lobby svr is needed though, and will be asked for again if not being solved.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 12 Oct 2006, 00:47

Until Betalord replies no comment. No point in a one sided flamewar tbh, no fun in it >;{)

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 12 Oct 2006, 00:56

Well it is mostly up to Betalord... However, we need this problem to be fixed, any way possible as long as it can't screw anything else up..

hrmph · Post by **hrmph** » 12 Oct 2006, 01:00

I don't think anyone wants this thread to be a personal attack on betalord. We want the lag problem fixed so we are discussing it.

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 12 Oct 2006, 01:42

Yeah, too many threads round here turn into one sided flame-fests. It's really not cool

Stil I'm sure there are good reasons why the lobby is not on one of the offered servers, but if theres any way the lag could be fixed...

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 12 Oct 2006, 02:11

I agree with Deathblane.

I'd say just let Betalord do his thing and stop bugging and blaming him so much and for everything. I'm pretty sure he will do the right thing. The lobby lags, so what. It's not like it's going to be forever (or it's being called a feature and forgotten about).
Furthermore, people are doing something about it. Maybe he (or THEY, it's not that it's all his descision alone, or is it?) are working on a solution which does not involve a third party server, but instead it just takes some time to get done.

Of course taking either server as replacement is a quick solution, I have to agree, but all this betalord this, betalord that is a little bit silly, isn't it?

Imagine you were in the same position would get fed shit every other day... not fun.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 12 Oct 2006, 02:56

I have to say that I too would like a more open and positive betalord, but some of these issues are a little more complicated then is immediately made out here. The instant concern with offloading lobby server is that we lose control over it if it explodes or goes down, and lobby client only supports one login at a time.

I've bugged AF to write multiple server login capabilities into AF lobby like most IRC clients have, but we'll see where that goes. As long as the commonly used lobby clients are as one dimensional as they are, connecting to multiple servers to play isn't really plausible for a user, and the concern of losing control over the official server if we offload it to another body is constantly present.

I trust cuppy, but the statement that "we have lots of servers up for donation and therefore there should be no lag on lobby" is a bit off, we can't dump community critical software onto servers that we have no control over the reliability of.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 12 Oct 2006, 03:03

My comment was not an attack or flame vs betalord. It is the truth.

And as far as reliability goes... I havn't seen unknown-files.net going down recently...

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 12 Oct 2006, 03:09

Forboding Angel wrote:My comment was not an attack or flame vs betalord. It is the truth.

And as far as reliability goes... I havn't seen unknown-files.net going down recently...

Have you been using it 24 hours a day every day? Because that's what lobby servers get. That being said, like I already said, I trust cuppy, I think unknown is good enough to be used, but the fact still remains, we can't just accept any server donation and use it for service critical functions. A good amount of discernment needs to be used.

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 12 Oct 2006, 03:14

I was thinking of xta being based in TA, the textures sounds etc.

also many scripts?

isnt the server in a school?

well, then its not a matter of the devs only. (as the school is in between).

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 12 Oct 2006, 04:02

I sure wish all the talented people contributing to spring could get along together. It pains me, as someone with no talents or resources to contribute to spring besides playing the game and hanging out in the lobby, to see the squabling that goes on at times between all the people who have made this game what it is.

I guess politics are a part of any human endevour, even one as cool as this game.

hrmph · Post by **hrmph** » 12 Oct 2006, 04:44

SwiftSpear wrote:The instant concern with offloading lobby server is that we lose control over it if it explodes or goes down, and lobby client only supports one login at a time.

I completely understand this viewpoint. This is why I suggested the server.clan-sy.com forwarding technique (see my post on page 1); so the admins could quickly redirect back to the old server if needed.

BTW to everyone saying we are 'flaming beta,' goto the first page and read every sentence with the word beta. I think if you read the posts you'll realize that this definitely isn't intended to be a flamefest.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 12 Oct 2006, 09:39

hrmph wrote:I don't understand involving the open source aspect in this discussion. (aside from Cup just trying to get people to read this :))

What I'm wondering is why the server has started lagging so much in the first place. It seems like it didn't start happening until this newest spring version; did hosts move, or some lobby code get changed (besides the obvious)? The svn, webpage, and lobby aren't on the same server; Hmm, well do they share the same bandwidth then?

I do think something needs to be done about the lag. The only argument I've seen for not moving to a better equipped computer is that you (spring devs, betalord, whoever) won't be in control of it. Well if having access to that machine isn't enough, why not using server.clan-sy.com (or whatever) to redirect to the 'new' lobby server. Then if for some strange reason the new host becomes unacceptable, switching back to the old server would be as easy as making server.clan-sy.com redirect back to the old servers. Personally I don't care who hosts the server (its not like they would get any recognition or monetary value for doing it), but anything done to improve the situation would be appreciated.

+1

Fix the lag that's all we want.

Well not all we want, but meh

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 12 Oct 2006, 10:09

hrmph wrote:
SwiftSpear wrote:The instant concern with offloading lobby server is that we lose control over it if it explodes or goes down, and lobby client only supports one login at a time.
I completely understand this viewpoint. This is why I suggested the server.clan-sy.com forwarding technique (see my post on page 1); so the admins could quickly redirect back to the old server if needed.

BTW to everyone saying we are 'flaming beta,' goto the first page and read every sentence with the word beta. I think if you read the posts you'll realize that this definitely isn't intended to be a flamefest.

Truth.

Heh, someone mentions beta in a bad light and zomg! Everyone "Higher up" comes to his rescue. Kinda sad really. Is he incapable of defending himself? No one is even flaming him! Yet I'm regarded as too touchy *sheesh*. *Walks off shaking head*

Chojin · Post by **Chojin** » 12 Oct 2006, 10:29

I don't want to offend anyone... But the lobby is kind of an IRC server... Do you guys really want to trust just anyone to host it? Maybe the guys deciding take that privacy concern seriously.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 12 Oct 2006, 10:53

Chojin wrote:I don't want to offend anyone... But the lobby is kind of an IRC server... Do you guys really want to trust just anyone to host it? Maybe the guys deciding take that privacy concern seriously.

Unless you don't already know, unknown-files.net hosts all things spring. Giving gobs and gobs of bandwidth as well as server space to the spring community en masse.

So honestly, I don't think trust is much of an issue here... More like arrogance.

iamacup · Post by **iamacup** » 12 Oct 2006, 10:59

some good points have been raised, and i doubt betalord will post here untill this has turned into a full blown flame fest and is horribly off topic.

the only thing that wories me is betalords reluctance to use anything third party, even unknown files is not to be used for the inbuilt downloads because it is not on betalords servers, and this is the soel reason that the inclient downloads do not work. NOT because i refused, i personaly believe the same thing is happening here and i thought bringing it to the public was better than just not......

im not saying anymore on the subject other than, fix the lag any way possible, if that is just a simple recode of the server then go ahead.

/me waits.

Post by **Tim Blokdijk** » 12 Oct 2006, 12:22

Maybe we can better delay this discussion until this new sub-forum for the "dev's" is active. (Tobi?)
Until then use the mailinglist.
I don't expect dev's to start a flamewar among themselves and if it happens it can be easily mediated.

And btw I have a lot of respect for Betalord, even *if* he would be inflexible then so be it, I don't care, I'm just like to prevent this atmosphere where people seem to assume a lot about others and where miscommunication leads to more assumptions and frustrations. It's a downward spiral that needs to be broken.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 12 Oct 2006, 16:31

Tim Blokdijk wrote:Maybe we can better delay this discussion until this new sub-forum for the "dev's" is active. (Tobi?)
Until then use the mailinglist.
I don't expect dev's to start a flamewar among themselves and if it happens it can be easily mediated.

And btw I have a lot of respect for Betalord, even *if* he would be inflexible then so be it, I don't care, I'm just like to prevent this atmosphere where people seem to assume a lot about others and where miscommunication leads to more assumptions and frustrations. It's a downward spiral that needs to be broken.

Agreed, and that would be wise, however, it wouldn't kill betalord to reply would it?

Spring RTS Engine

Why spring doesnt qualify as an open source project