If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion:
sketch it first. Know what it will look like before you start modeling, and this includes textures.
Do minimal research. If the mod is based on reality, GIS for factory 1914 will give you some ideas.
Make the parts look as if they actually mean something.
My model!
Moderators: MR.D, Moderators
Yes I know that, but spring uses quads and tri's (or i thought) so thats pointless, it will be triangulated and then teh shading will go wonky.Maelstrom wrote:How to make a 5 sided box in Wings (which i think Zoombie is using?):
1) Make a cube.
2) Goto edge selection mode.
3) Select the edges around the corner you want to cut. There should be 4 edges selected. Dont select the edge on the actual corner though.
4) Press 'C' to connect them.
5) Goto Vertex selection mode
6) Delete the corner vertex.
7) Done!
Or it always did for me, maybe im doing somthing wrong.
aGorm
-
LathanStanley
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16
And I'd have drawn it with the polyhedra tool, made a polysurface from polylines and snapped it to the scale or point required... ooh, I'm sorry, wrong modeling environment 
Zoombie, I like that you want critique, but you've gotta get past the "my first box" stage before I have a lot to say. The only real wisdom I can give you, for early work, is that almost all modelers go through these stages of development:
1. They learn how to make basic shapes that look vaguely like something- the equivalent of "hello world" in 3D modeling. Then they either get really frustrated, when they learn that getting past that point is a lot harder than it looks, or they persevere and get to stage 2.
2. Modelers who've mastered the basics almost always reach a stage where they can actually make things that look like they want them to ("good" is another thing entirely, and subjective to say the least). Then, almost invariably, they start building very extravagent, wasteful models that look fairly cool (at least, to them and anybody who likes their style) but any expert will instantly recognize have been poorly made.
3. Finally... those who stick with it finally reach the final hurdles: laying out uvmaps and learning how to model efficiently and perfectly, as opposed to just making things look neat. This is the most difficult technical step, and it just requires a great deal of practice, honestly.
If you skip step 2, and try to go straight towards step 3, as soon as you've mastered step 1, you will do yourself a huge favor. I've seen sooooo many modelers get to the point where they can make things that look really kewl, but are complete wastes of time as serious models for games. Many of these guys become stupidly arrogant, because the models look good in renders... and people who know zip about modeling like their work. The thing is... any professional of the art will tell you very quickly that guys like that don't ever actually work in the games industry, because... erm... any serious pro is all about efficient modeling and design.
I am, tbh, never going to reach the level of perfection required of a true pro of the art. I'm ok with that- my models are servicable and do their job, and aren't unreasonably poor in quality. So, keep that in mind- I know how good the pros are... I know I'm pretty good... but I'm like some dude who plays basketball with his buddies after work, not Micheal Jordan. If you want to be Micheal Jordan... you have a few years of very hard work ahead of you- these days, modeling for these sorts of applications is something they have whole programs about at serious art schools. Most of us aren't quite that leet I doubt if that's your goal- you just wanna build your crazy mod. But it's something to keep in mind.
Modeling for games is half science, half art. Study the science part- tristripping, uvmapping, "what is a surface normal", etc.- and also study the classical art stuff- you can learn a lot from studying other people's art, especially solid-body stuff, like models. I spend at least 8 hours a month (a big chunk of time for me- I have a lot've RL responsibilities) looking at websites, mainly those concerned with modeling- the physical, real-world kind. Why there, and not 3D modeling sites? Simple- because I can relate better to the way that they're approaching concepts of design. I built a lot've scratchbuild models as a kid (I was a prize-winning mini painter) so I really relate to that world. But find other people's stuff to look at, constantly- otherwise you're just going to make boring, stereotypical work.
I've been modeling for games a looooong time, so I know that I just have to take things slow, work hard, and do a lot've sketches before you commit a lot've time to a model. I try not to hurry, even though I'm always short on time and I usually need a model done RIGHT NOW to fit into whatever. With XvM, I'm actually looking forward to the fact that since I'm not working alone, and there's a (small) collective working on it, I can really take my time on each piece- the mod's not going to fail to be playable because I didn't get something done. That's kind've new for me, and very liberating. You might want to try to get some stuff accepted by us, first, honestly, before you put all the pressure on yourself to get things done for your mod idea, so that you can concentrate on learning how to model well before you try to model fast. Just a thought.
These days, I often just sit down and model something in one go, but sketches are still a very important part of getting look-and-feel right, and generally getting an idea right. I should've done that with the Mynn Commander the other day, but nooo... I only had about 8 hours before Work and I wanted to just knock it out and be done. I didn't worry a lot about look-and-feel- just chucked out "bug-eyed alien" and voila.
I paid for it by having to remodel the sucker and paint the whole body again- not trivial. With modeling for Spring, you will very quickly find out that you'd better have planned the darn thing out extremely carefully before building it... and even more carefully after you get past the point where it's skinned. I made rebuilding the body, re-mapping it and re-painting it look pretty easy... it's not, unless you're as experienced as I am, and it still took me the better part of 6 hours
Zoombie, I like that you want critique, but you've gotta get past the "my first box" stage before I have a lot to say. The only real wisdom I can give you, for early work, is that almost all modelers go through these stages of development:
1. They learn how to make basic shapes that look vaguely like something- the equivalent of "hello world" in 3D modeling. Then they either get really frustrated, when they learn that getting past that point is a lot harder than it looks, or they persevere and get to stage 2.
2. Modelers who've mastered the basics almost always reach a stage where they can actually make things that look like they want them to ("good" is another thing entirely, and subjective to say the least). Then, almost invariably, they start building very extravagent, wasteful models that look fairly cool (at least, to them and anybody who likes their style) but any expert will instantly recognize have been poorly made.
3. Finally... those who stick with it finally reach the final hurdles: laying out uvmaps and learning how to model efficiently and perfectly, as opposed to just making things look neat. This is the most difficult technical step, and it just requires a great deal of practice, honestly.
If you skip step 2, and try to go straight towards step 3, as soon as you've mastered step 1, you will do yourself a huge favor. I've seen sooooo many modelers get to the point where they can make things that look really kewl, but are complete wastes of time as serious models for games. Many of these guys become stupidly arrogant, because the models look good in renders... and people who know zip about modeling like their work. The thing is... any professional of the art will tell you very quickly that guys like that don't ever actually work in the games industry, because... erm... any serious pro is all about efficient modeling and design.
I am, tbh, never going to reach the level of perfection required of a true pro of the art. I'm ok with that- my models are servicable and do their job, and aren't unreasonably poor in quality. So, keep that in mind- I know how good the pros are... I know I'm pretty good... but I'm like some dude who plays basketball with his buddies after work, not Micheal Jordan. If you want to be Micheal Jordan... you have a few years of very hard work ahead of you- these days, modeling for these sorts of applications is something they have whole programs about at serious art schools. Most of us aren't quite that leet
I doubt if that's your goal- you just wanna build your crazy mod. But it's something to keep in mind.Modeling for games is half science, half art. Study the science part- tristripping, uvmapping, "what is a surface normal", etc.- and also study the classical art stuff- you can learn a lot from studying other people's art, especially solid-body stuff, like models. I spend at least 8 hours a month (a big chunk of time for me- I have a lot've RL responsibilities) looking at websites, mainly those concerned with modeling- the physical, real-world kind. Why there, and not 3D modeling sites? Simple- because I can relate better to the way that they're approaching concepts of design. I built a lot've scratchbuild models as a kid (I was a prize-winning mini painter) so I really relate to that world. But find other people's stuff to look at, constantly- otherwise you're just going to make boring, stereotypical work.
I've been modeling for games a looooong time, so I know that I just have to take things slow, work hard, and do a lot've sketches before you commit a lot've time to a model. I try not to hurry, even though I'm always short on time and I usually need a model done RIGHT NOW to fit into whatever. With XvM, I'm actually looking forward to the fact that since I'm not working alone, and there's a (small) collective working on it, I can really take my time on each piece- the mod's not going to fail to be playable because I didn't get something done. That's kind've new for me, and very liberating. You might want to try to get some stuff accepted by us, first, honestly, before you put all the pressure on yourself to get things done for your mod idea, so that you can concentrate on learning how to model well before you try to model fast. Just a thought.
These days, I often just sit down and model something in one go, but sketches are still a very important part of getting look-and-feel right, and generally getting an idea right. I should've done that with the Mynn Commander the other day, but nooo... I only had about 8 hours before Work and I wanted to just knock it out and be done. I didn't worry a lot about look-and-feel- just chucked out "bug-eyed alien" and voila.
I paid for it by having to remodel the sucker and paint the whole body again- not trivial. With modeling for Spring, you will very quickly find out that you'd better have planned the darn thing out extremely carefully before building it... and even more carefully after you get past the point where it's skinned. I made rebuilding the body, re-mapping it and re-painting it look pretty easy... it's not, unless you're as experienced as I am, and it still took me the better part of 6 hours
Long, wordy, very usefull. I can actually get 'sorta' what I want, as long as teh object is simple...like a bunch of box's. But every time I try pressing a new button, I usually end up going "That is so cool!", so I suppose that is only a good thing.
So thanks for all the help guys. Now let see if I can still make some nice tanks and buildings and such.
So thanks for all the help guys. Now let see if I can still make some nice tanks and buildings and such.
-
LathanStanley
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16
-
LathanStanley
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16
It is all very easy, and making efficient models is easy. To me, that death stinger did need a revamp. Why, though? Cuz it wasn't true to the actual thing.. It could have performed fine and dandy, I had the idea for the joints and plenty of other things. UV Mapping, is easy. These new methods are really smooth, and I'm glad they came from somewhere, it sounds like a pain to do it like KDR said.
Otherwise though, 1 month of wings3d and you will hit the "I can make what I want, and it still is kinda efficient," part if you continue on. Then UV mapping, you should be natural at it if you focus the creativity of your stories into it
Edit: That death stinger won't be rearing his tail for at least months because I still need to learn how to get past nub scripting..
Otherwise though, 1 month of wings3d and you will hit the "I can make what I want, and it still is kinda efficient," part if you continue on. Then UV mapping, you should be natural at it if you focus the creativity of your stories into it
Edit: That death stinger won't be rearing his tail for at least months because I still need to learn how to get past nub scripting..