Re-compiling all my features
Moderators: MR.D, Moderators
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LathanStanley
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16
When an artist SIGNS his work, he is PROUD of it..
to piss on it within 6 hours of it being on display... is worse than killing my mother...
I've made GOOD DAMN NOTICE of the FPS implications within the README, and HOW to avoid problems with them... etc.. did you even read it?.. probably not.
but what you did was INSULTING. and frankly, I was straight up with you... acknowledged your concerns, agreed with your viewpoint, and then stated mine, and stated my reasons WHY I left it as is, and what my INTENTIONS are to improve in the future.. I even said that I respect you, and LIKED you..
and YET YOU STILL TALK DOWN TO ME LIKE A CHILD!...
you REALLY need to grow up.
to piss on it within 6 hours of it being on display... is worse than killing my mother...
I've made GOOD DAMN NOTICE of the FPS implications within the README, and HOW to avoid problems with them... etc.. did you even read it?.. probably not.
but what you did was INSULTING. and frankly, I was straight up with you... acknowledged your concerns, agreed with your viewpoint, and then stated mine, and stated my reasons WHY I left it as is, and what my INTENTIONS are to improve in the future.. I even said that I respect you, and LIKED you..
and YET YOU STILL TALK DOWN TO ME LIKE A CHILD!...
you REALLY need to grow up.
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LathanStanley
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16
you don't FIX flaws, you offer OPTIONS.Argh wrote:I didn't piss on your work. I just fixed its worst technical flaws!
Grow up!
what you did was the equivilant of taking a HAND PAINTED mural (that I created) and took a picture of it with a webcam... then posted it on the internet because its more "efficient" way of getting the image out... rather than have people walk in front of the mural, and accept its beauty...
argh.
you are stubborn. my work WILL speak for itself, I am confident of this.
you are a CODER not an artist...
if you want to "FIX" something.. put in a line of code that sets a "Texture resolution max" option into the game code. and get off my case.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Argh: lost a post in this thread for flaming, consider this a warning, don't talk down to people simply because they disagree with you.
Forb: don't help escalate things when you told argh he was being rude he wasn't that didn't come till later
Lathan: For the most part Argh was right here. Models are "art" to a very limited extent. As a game developer you need to make sure you are working within frameworks that make your games run smoothly, this is your responsibility. This isn't the realm of traditional art where the limit is your imagination, there are VERY real and necessary mechanical limits and optimizations you need to consider fully when you do work for game development. To use your own example you're basically painting murals when you've taken a job to paint wall art display pieces. Your murals might be gorgeous, but you're supposed to be selling wall art and they aren't nearly as useful to your target market as they would be if you just painted wall art in the first place. That being said, there are a million techniques of optimizing AND keeping a high quality at the same time, this is why arg's quick conversions don't look as good, because they do something very simple, not a full optimization. What you really need to do is NOT resist optimizing because you feel it hurts quality, but embracing the methods of doing both at the same time. Arg's a little enthusiastic here, and honestly to do it properly most of your models would have to probably re UV mapped and re textured to retain both high quality and optimization, but still, rather then shooting the messenger try maby to heed his advice with your later projects... Ultimately his points are very sound.
Forb: don't help escalate things when you told argh he was being rude he wasn't that didn't come till later
Lathan: For the most part Argh was right here. Models are "art" to a very limited extent. As a game developer you need to make sure you are working within frameworks that make your games run smoothly, this is your responsibility. This isn't the realm of traditional art where the limit is your imagination, there are VERY real and necessary mechanical limits and optimizations you need to consider fully when you do work for game development. To use your own example you're basically painting murals when you've taken a job to paint wall art display pieces. Your murals might be gorgeous, but you're supposed to be selling wall art and they aren't nearly as useful to your target market as they would be if you just painted wall art in the first place. That being said, there are a million techniques of optimizing AND keeping a high quality at the same time, this is why arg's quick conversions don't look as good, because they do something very simple, not a full optimization. What you really need to do is NOT resist optimizing because you feel it hurts quality, but embracing the methods of doing both at the same time. Arg's a little enthusiastic here, and honestly to do it properly most of your models would have to probably re UV mapped and re textured to retain both high quality and optimization, but still, rather then shooting the messenger try maby to heed his advice with your later projects... Ultimately his points are very sound.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
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LathanStanley
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16
ok, I ENCOURAGE people to take a look at these two screeeshots..
instead of trying to hide between "mystery" and have people GUESS at which screen is the "low res" and which is the "high res" and REMOVE A MODEL TO GET A BETTER FRAMERATE!!! (Tyranid2) to be exact.
look at these two models, the SL rocks (background) and Tyranid Chimney (foreground) are the BIGEST texturesize files..
the FIRST is ARGH's 512x512 res *.dds textures,
the second is my 1024x1024 res *.tga textures...
I actually get a better FPS... not by much, but I do...
at a far distance, with everything in place, the results were identical.
maybe its just my computer?? maybe it was dumb luck?? maybe I'm ignorant too... but I STILL find it NO REASON to take my PROFESSIONAL QUALITY work and piss on it and call it "optiomized"
and yes I hosted them as .png's they are a better quality than .jpg, and frankly, QUALITY matters here, not 10kb difference on 500kb+ 1024x768 screenshots... woo 10kb, less 2% filesize for a 35% WORSE image... blah.
instead of trying to hide between "mystery" and have people GUESS at which screen is the "low res" and which is the "high res" and REMOVE A MODEL TO GET A BETTER FRAMERATE!!! (Tyranid2) to be exact.
look at these two models, the SL rocks (background) and Tyranid Chimney (foreground) are the BIGEST texturesize files..
the FIRST is ARGH's 512x512 res *.dds textures,
the second is my 1024x1024 res *.tga textures...
I actually get a better FPS... not by much, but I do...
at a far distance, with everything in place, the results were identical.
maybe its just my computer?? maybe it was dumb luck?? maybe I'm ignorant too... but I STILL find it NO REASON to take my PROFESSIONAL QUALITY work and piss on it and call it "optiomized"
and yes I hosted them as .png's they are a better quality than .jpg, and frankly, QUALITY matters here, not 10kb difference on 500kb+ 1024x768 screenshots... woo 10kb, less 2% filesize for a 35% WORSE image... blah.
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LathanStanley
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16
This thread is astoundingly errr
I was a bit flummoxed as to how it ever reached this point.
Argh makes many good points and always has a point of view worth looking at but he takes it too far and this isn't the only thread where he's argued over optimisations that garner 2-5 additional frames under extreme conditions.
I it me or could this effort be directed into producing content rather than fine tuning minuscule pieces.
Lathan, he may be pressing his point but be aware he's only trying to help though at time it may not seem that way
Argh, I know you may believe you know better and you may will be right. But at the end of the day it's his call, his content and he can do what he wants, even if it isn't the best way of doing it, so tell him and if he disagrees so what, he isn't the only modeller here and you've said your piece, let people make mistakes, you might be surprised by what happens, and you're better off putting all that thought in somewhere else.
I was a bit flummoxed as to how it ever reached this point.
Argh makes many good points and always has a point of view worth looking at but he takes it too far and this isn't the only thread where he's argued over optimisations that garner 2-5 additional frames under extreme conditions.
I it me or could this effort be directed into producing content rather than fine tuning minuscule pieces.
Lathan, he may be pressing his point but be aware he's only trying to help though at time it may not seem that way
Argh, I know you may believe you know better and you may will be right. But at the end of the day it's his call, his content and he can do what he wants, even if it isn't the best way of doing it, so tell him and if he disagrees so what, he isn't the only modeller here and you've said your piece, let people make mistakes, you might be surprised by what happens, and you're better off putting all that thought in somewhere else.
Now thats just silly, just because a handful of people insist there way is the right way doesnt mean you should up sticks and bugger if. Just accept that they may well be running down the path to oblivion and move on. People here have a habit of wanting to be right all the time.
If anything I'd want you to write up a lot of what you've put up because it's all over the place and has a lot of value.
If anything I'd want you to write up a lot of what you've put up because it's all over the place and has a lot of value.