patcher forum

AF · Post by AF » 16 Jul 2006, 17:48

The same could eb said fo maps, but then again there's a user map forum for the suers to bite back in.

Users have a knack for driving away devs and patchers though, and a good patcher easily becomes a Dev, and we need new devs right now.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:02

SwiftSpear wrote:Coding experiance is irrelevent once the patch is to the point where it simply does whatever it's intended to do to the engine. I don't need to be a coder to understand what a patch does, if it works exactly the way it's supposed to then it's very simply a good idea bad idea issue.

No, you need to be a coder or/and moder. Again read the isairbase thread. Even other coders argued it but they did not realize the issue I was fixing. Most people who replied did NOT understand what the patch was FIXING but because it changed all of MAYBE 10 units(in all of OTA units) people percieved it a BROKEN.

SwiftSpear wrote:There's no coding to talk about, just weather or not it should be implimented based on what it fixes/breaks.

Most people do not understand what is fixed or broken.

Most people think !TA = borked.

SwiftSpear wrote:I see the idea of this as forum as a good place for patchers to get together and stomp problems together, discuss implimentation methods and code quality, speak jargon freely, and help eachother work through things to the point where they are ready for inclusion.

yes. without the harassment of the ignorant masses... hail Ilpalazzo!

SwiftSpear wrote:I don't think it's a good idea if the whole idea is a place for an elite segment of the comunity to discuss where the game should go without having to argue with the people who ultimately are the ones who have to deal with whatever is done.

It is not, there is not secret stone cutters organization *whispers off into his glasses* neutralize the target *peers back at swiftspear through his agent smith glasses*

It is not about elitism, geez. Dude, seriously you do not give the CORE DEVS enough credit THEY decide what make it in. Also most people only think about what is good for AA. MANY FEATURES are options and MANY PLAYERS defecate instantly upon a feature.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:04

Now with the feature request forum, this forum will probaly stay a bit cleaner... let's see how it goes.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:14

*sighs* I think my point was completely lost *sighs*

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:30

yet another good thread completely derailed by people who just don't want to understand.

Post by **jcnossen** » 16 Jul 2006, 19:29

Maybe a restricted development forum (not specifically for patches) is better...

I don't need to be a coder to understand what a patch does, if it works exactly the way it's supposed to then it's very simply a good idea bad idea issue.

It's definitely not as black and white as you think, patches need to be reviewed/commented. Just look at a the rotatable buildings patch, or a few others. A lot of patches break other things.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 16 Jul 2006, 19:38

oh yeah, I completely agrea with that jc, sometimes extra features may be suggested that will improve the functionality of something. I am simply trying to get a place where people who are working on patches can get into it without having X number of people completely derail the chain of thought.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 17 Jul 2006, 18:12

Well, gaining access would be very simple, tell the moderator of the patch forum that you have a patch you want to post there, and wala! you're in.

Edit: For those of you who don't think this is a good idea, read THIS: http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewt ... sc&start=0

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 17 Jul 2006, 19:05

but what about ppl who know stuff about coding or other related stuff, but didn't made a patch or something before... where to draw the line.... that could drive some ppl away IMO

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 17 Jul 2006, 19:10

a place where people who are working on patches can get into it without having X number of people completely derail the chain of thought.

<-from earlier.

as far as people not having acess to the patcher forum.

the same could be said of the mapping forum. That isn't the case.

BvDorp · Post by **BvDorp** » 17 Jul 2006, 19:24

I disagree very much with the idea. Retraining urselves in protected areas of this forum won't help. After all, the whole reason this thread started (the thread that got locked) was because Smoth was very disappointed in ppl, and others replied the same. Ppl like 'Det' actually were making nice comments, but were flamed away cuz everyone was this picky. If we all grew some social skills, nothing like this forum would be needed. After all, it just keeps ppl out.

There already are two layers patches have to go through:

1) getting accepted by others

2) being implented by tvo, jcnossen or others

This won't change by getting ur own private forum.

My argument: learning to deal with ppl is better than protecting urselves.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 17 Jul 2006, 19:29

Wow, so you call immature in only thinly veiled words? I can see your point but be a bit less condescending. It is easy to say deal with it. However, as the target of frequent personal attacks I do not want to see others have to deal with it. Everyone has their limits as far as patience goes.

Seriously, LOOK at the thread where people argued for several pages that salmon pink was the same as red. It took arguing at length before people started listening. It is stuff like that which no level of maturity can handle. I do not feel that any level of maturity will keep people from derailing a discussion.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 17 Jul 2006, 19:31

And in the end smot's patch got implented so what's the problem..?

If ppl flame don't flame back, you will only make it worse.

Ignore the flaming works best!

And now with the feature request forum, the developement forum will be cleaner i think, so lets see first how it goes now... A new private forum can always be added later.

just my 2 cents

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 17 Jul 2006, 19:35

Oh yeah, it is easy to ignore the flames the first or second time but you eventually lose patience. It took getting AF in teamspeak and waisted vast amounts of time that I could have used to write another patch.

Post by **Tim Blokdijk** » 17 Jul 2006, 19:49

I agree with Smoth here but I would like to finish my work on making procedures for the Spring community I started with the SVN for AI developers document and I like to extend that across the project.
That way you have groups of developers (AI, Engine, Mod, ect.) with a definition on when your are that type of developer, this allows us to give different (posting, commit, ect.) "rights" to the people within the project.
If you start private forums and "just" add people you get elitism.
And I'm here to make Spring development easier not to promote elitism.

The mailinglist is also a fine place to discus patches for the moment.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 17 Jul 2006, 19:52

I should have mentioned that I gave up on the idea yesterday. I have a tendency to discuss things at too great a lenght.. sorry. I thought it was a good idea.

AF · Post by AF » 17 Jul 2006, 20:44

What about the jack of all trades? I do AI, lobby, patches etc already.

And to be honest tamspeak didnt change my opinion, its just you never saw it change on the forum.

I say dont just let patchers in, just let anyone who has doen a patch, and anyone who has started or began but dropped one.

You shouldnt have to write a patch to gain access, but you should at least know some sort of aspect.

So that boils it down to, all devs + anyone who can program

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 17 Jul 2006, 21:29

Where in that thread did I succeed at explaining it? I thought I completely failed at explaining until you and I talked. I ask because I seem to fail at explainations on a regular basis.

Post by **Tim Blokdijk** » 17 Jul 2006, 21:41

AF wrote:What about the jack of all trades? I do AI, lobby, patches etc already.

If you get accepted as an engine developer you get the commit rights for that to. (AI interface changes would still need to be accepted by other AI devs.)

AF wrote: ...

I say dont just let patchers in, just let anyone who has doen a patch, and anyone who has started or began but dropped one.

You shouldnt have to write a patch to gain access, but you should at least know some sort of aspect.

So that boils it down to, all devs + anyone who can program

I would also include mod developers as they have to work with the patches that are accepted for the engine.
I would only exclude the Spring gamers and (possibly) mappers from development forums.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 17 Jul 2006, 23:32

AF wrote:You shouldnt have to write a patch to gain access, but you should at least know some sort of aspect.

I completely disagree. As for the mappers forum... notice how everything is helpful and orderly in that forum? THe reason is because if someone is not an active mapper they do not get access. I have had several guys that were working on thier first ask for access and were denied until they released their first map.

The reason for that is because that forum is not for noob mapper questions, we have user map discussion for that.

IMO the same should be said of a patchers forum, that way you have only intelligent discussion as opposed to idiots mucking up threads.

I don't honestly know if mappers should have access to post or not. Honestly I think that it might be a decent idea to let us psot as I think probably the only time we would is when it involves something to do with mapping (3rd resource for example). But either way would be fine with me.

Spring RTS Engine

patcher forum