Trees

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 27 Jun 2006, 15:55

allow us a transparacy channel for s3o's and it's all solved!

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 27 Jun 2006, 16:03

Generated from what?? There must be some base infomation or set of rules it follows. And theres no way it just generates each leaf... they are definatly from a texture...

I was kinda thinking it looked like each tree was just a set of progresivly smaller sticks placed in a tree like way (which could be done by teh engin so fare does if there is no model), and that teh leaves were just added seperatly as a bunch of overlaping sprites.
However surly that can be rewiten to pick from say 5 different trunks , and then a load of differnt brances, and leaves just do them teh same way, but with a bigger texture for more detail.

aGorm

AF · Post by AF » 27 Jun 2006, 16:18

aGorm+Smoth you're dead wrong.

Look at the trees, they're models that're generated durign the starting sequence using the leaves and bark and other textures in the spring content.

Modify the leaves and so on and you'll see the difference ingame.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 27 Jun 2006, 16:22

Yhe, i stod corrected in teh above post and added a new solution.. or atleast a new idea of what we could do... You would get 100's of differnt trees if they we done like i just said above.

aGorm

AF · Post by AF » 27 Jun 2006, 16:24

Might be simple, for now there're 16 different trees generated, tree1/tree2/.../tree16 are their internal names

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 27 Jun 2006, 16:46

Of course, just casue hundreds of variations are possible, does not mean we want to have to specify hundreds of differnt trees, so maybe if it genrated tree1a,tree1b,tree1c.... tree16h ect.. it would be better.

aGorm

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 27 Jun 2006, 18:13

AF wrote:aGorm+Smoth you're dead wrong.

Look at the trees, they're models that're generated durign the starting sequence using the leaves and bark and other textures in the spring content.

Modify the leaves and so on and you'll see the difference ingame.

I know that but it will still be the fundamentally same tree I have read the code that GENERATES them and edited the textures will you *censored*ing people ever believe me... or do you only hear... "hi I'm smoth I talk out of my ass"

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 27 Jun 2006, 18:35

i tried editing them to give the trees a winterlike look, but it didn't really worked out....

Weaver · Post by **Weaver** » 27 Jun 2006, 18:57

The tree code is funny, we have 16 generated randomly at startup. Does this this mean they look different for each player and different each time you load the map? I am hoping someone can decypher code and tell me for sure.

If they are random each time, could we tweak the code a little for more variation between types? And could the coordinates be used as the seed for each tree so they dont change when they really shouldn't.

Another random snippet sort of related, the current map format stores a value for a size multiplier for features, but it is not used.

If all this was implemented we could have 16 distinctly different types of proceedural trees that could have an adjusteble size.

Sounds complicated but probably simpler to do than rotatable buildings.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 27 Jun 2006, 22:57

What is wrong with you Smoth, just because we happened to start on the wrong note by you misintupreting my coment about growing trees, does not mean that Your "talking out your ass" and I have never said you are.

I happen to have read it to. Ages ago when I was first trying to find how come they got 1bit alpha and features didn't. I didn't totaly understand the code so I didn't try and suggest I had a clue what it realy did, but my suspision on them being generated by teh game engin was correct. So what big deal, nither of us are arguing about that!!! In fac the only thing we disagreeed on was trees growing!!

AF's post was mistimed, he said we were both wrong when both me and you had arived at what he said alrady.

So we are in agreement infact that the trees are generated.

Now can we scrap teh whole arguming about nothing and get on with the solution. Please.

Weaver has shed some more light on what happens, and has offered a few more ideas. Now, I may be wrong here, but if there generated, surly if someone re-wrote that code it could just be sloted in and the rest of the game would be none the wiser (apart from maybe the trees falling down stuff might be affected...). So surly its just a matter of us agreeing on how we think it should work.

Now surly the main question is: How do you make the engin create good looking trees, randomly.

Currently it just seems to through together a bunch of cilinders and add a look of leaf sprites to generate the folige around them...

It would surly be better if you insted gave the engin peices to build a tree out of, IE 10 trunks, 10 branches, and ten leaf types. This would give you 1000 different tree atleast and assuming each branch was used once and grow from fixed positions. But seeing as they could be randomly generated, that basicly add's an infinite number of possabilitys.

Now the way I'm think might, from the coder point of view, be very very messy and resource consuming, I dont know. But its a suggestion.

Obviolsy the generating would hgave to folow certain rules like, max and min number of branches, that sort of thing. And whilst they should be more complicated than the current trees, the ycant be say Half-life two style trees, no matter what people hope.

The one thing that would be cool with this method is that as you zoom out the branch peices can be replace by lesser and lesser detailed peices, insted of jumping stright to sprites, as that jump looks worse than the trees do IMO.

Long post sorry for rambeling and smoth, I dont think you talk out your ass. And Im realy sorry if I came across like I think you do.

aGorm

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 27 Jun 2006, 23:06

The part I don't get is how it generates the pine trees. I over wrote the textures and they still looked the same. I am not sure how it is generating the texture.

hrmph · Post by **hrmph** » 29 Jun 2006, 21:11

It would be really cool if there was some kind of script within the smd file to control the generation of trees for each particular map. The map maker would be able to specify what kind of tree would be constructed and what texture would be applied to what area (trunk,leaf,etc). It could be very simple like assigning a number for size, amount of branches/leaves, size of trunk (you get the idea).

AF · Post by AF » 29 Jun 2006, 21:15

i think packaging replacement texture sin the map archive may have a similar effect.

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 29 Jun 2006, 23:24

Reaper or Regrowing of Trees would be cool to have and controll. Imagine a Jungle that grows that fast - that you have to burn your Way every attack, or that just starts to spread into the Bases

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 03 Jul 2006, 15:46

fiddled a bit with the bitmaps

Looks like shit, but it shows something can be done.. however i can't seem to edit the "darker" trees.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 03 Jul 2006, 16:01

They kindof look like those whatamacallit trees with the really shiny leaves...

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 05 Jul 2006, 11:06

I can see... THROUGH the tree leaves to ground below!

...I thought you couldnt have alpha channels on the tree image files?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 05 Jul 2006, 11:09

well you can edit bleaf.bmp

black is transparent.

But whatever color you make the leaves they always turn out greenish

So it doesn't work as good as i hoped

so PLEASE PATCH US UP TO S3O WITH TRANSPARENCIES

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 05 Jul 2006, 12:40

Dragon45 wrote:I can see... THROUGH the tree leaves to ground below!

...I thought you couldnt have alpha channels on the tree image files?

No, you can have tranparency on the default trees, you can't have transparencty on 3do or s3o though, so we can't make new tree features with transparency.

bobthedinosaur · Post by **bobthedinosaur** » 06 Jul 2006, 05:58

pokadotty tree leaves?

Spring RTS Engine

Trees