Going to see Ender's Game IMAX tonight!!!

[Funkencool]

A successful movie will mean higher book sales, money which goes straight into his pockets. It's also voting with your wallet to say you don't care who wrote the story. There's also the offers from TV Networks for the rights to show the film, those will be guided by ticket sales.

Yeah, no

that is a slippery slope argument.

No, I believe that's just called boycotting

-edit-
It's not a fallacy to believe this movie will make the author money. That should be common sense.

On the other hand..

A boycott is an act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for social or political reasons. Sometimes, it can be a form of consumer activism.

[smoth]

Oh please, his point is the movie does well, the book will sell more and if the book sells more you are OK with/supporting the author's anti-homosexual beliefs?

Boycotting/social activision has become very much an us vs them mentality. the same shit that has the whole RED VS BLUE bullshit going on in the USA. It would be different if he was a government or a corporation instead of a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL! Aka chik filet or starbux..

I don't see people raising issue with the church or laterday saints? Oh wait, people are OK to have their beliefs in the USA. I suppose other countries are not big on that? I don't know but to me, I see an individual not being allowed to believe what he wants for fear of mass persecution. Which is ENTIRELY what I am against. ANYTIME some GROUP attacks a PERSON I am not ok with it. We are not talking Osama, Bush, or some other large figure head. We are talking about a private individual with less than a D-list status in Hollywood.

NEWSFLASH the books already sold tons of units. He is already a successful author.

[Funkencool]

From what I'm reading, it looks like he's just stating whats already been said in this topic. That some people don't care who wrote the story, or in this case that he's a 'bigot'. Some people do care who wrote it and are boycotting it because of that.

..to say you don't care who wrote the story..

Has that not been said already?

No one gives a shit about Card's sexual tendencies or beliefs. All we give a shit about is the story.

I really don't see the fallacy

-edit-
All I'm trying to say is.. What's the big deal if some people want to abstain from being involved with someone, however subtly?

[smoth]

google anti-gay author, see hivemind, feel disgusted.

Some people argue that the fact that there is a large portion of people against the dude suggests that there is a congruency. Me, I see it is a massive bullying effort just because people don't like his beliefs.

[Funkencool]

He's in the group against gay rights, a groups against the group against gay rights, and you're disgusted by the group that's against the group that's against gay rights. Got it.

Anyway, I'm going to concede before this goes any further down the rabbit hole.

[smoth]

That is a really lousy way to "CEDE" an argument. I'll have the last word and then say we are done. GJ? that isn't really fair.

[CarRepairer]

So I wonder why this thread is exempt from the no politics rule. The spring forums were so pleasant for a couple of years now.

Boycotts are meaningless. Every time you buy gas you're sending money right to countries that actually persecute gays (you know, like Russia lol).

Here's an amusing read on how effective personal boycotts are.

---

I've never read the book but my pal Picasso told me it's really good, I guess I ought to check it before seeing the movie?

[smoth]

I had a friend recommend the book to me a while back and I was like SWEET THERE IS A MOVIE FORM! Then all the rage from the "gay community." I was like WTF, I never heard all this before the movie was about to come out.

[knorke]

So I wonder why this thread is exempt from the no politics rule. The spring forums were so pleasant for a couple of years now.

I think it is not really political thread. A bit maybe, since everything almost everything about real life is somewhat related politics related.
How pleasant the forum is to read is not a question of the topics but how people discuss them and what language they use.

His book Songmaster had a gay couple too that was described as 'self destructive'.

I do not remember if it was "self destructive" but it surely was no normal relation...
One is adult man, other is a child. In world of the story children are routinely drugged, treated to never reach puperty and given away/sold as toys/slaves. Like eunuchs in ancient Rome or something.

I was like WTF, I never heard all this before the movie was about to come out.

Before the movie was made there was just some SciFi novel from the 1980's. Of course a 2013 movie reaches more people. There might be lots of over the top opinions from "facebook hivemind" (or whereever) and that is rather silly but it does not make the critic invalid.

google anti-gay author, see hivemind, feel disgusted.

Some people argue that the fact that there is a large portion of people against the dude suggests that there is a congruency. Me, I see it is a massive bullying effort just because people don't like his beliefs.

Ok, that is your opinion about the opinions of others. Too meta! Why not share your own point of view?

I think it is totally valid not to watch a movie because of views of the author or statements that he made. Even if the movie is "neutral" in that regard maybe one just does not want to support that person?
It does not matter if you pay no money (pirate it or similiar): One might feel like having supported it, just by having spend some time with it; maybe one does not want to?
Or it would just hamper enjoyment of the movie to know who made it.

I think artists and their work can never be fully seperated, no matter how neutral the work might be. That is why I do not listen to some bands even though the music is decent and contains nothing political/racist/whatever.
On other hand I still like the work of Verne or Lovecraft even though they are slightly racist. So maybe not very consequent?
But 100 years ago such views were appearently normal. So it is also interessting as it shows fragments of a a different time...

[smoth]

My views? I can try but I think it'll be hard to have it not get "lost in translation"

I don't care about peoples personal lives. I care when they directly, not indirectly effect the lives of others. As in people attacking others etc. I don't really care one way or another about large groups beyond when they attack a singular individual. Not because the individual is a minority(which mormons are) but because he has some how become the one to show up on the radar as a target. It feels very witchhunt and I rage about it. if the author or his fanbase was attacking a singular homosexual i would rage as well.

I do not have any issue with marriage equality, I think everyone should be able to be as miserable as everyone else. This falls under personal life, so I don't care, I might have concerns but I don't really care. I understand their concerns as religious people but reject it on the level of morality. I don't see how the views of the author are relevant.

I don't like these supposed mass movements and protests. Most of the time you find some larger organization behind them passing out signs etc. This happens more often than I am happy about. People have found a way to make causes a million dollar industry. It makes me wonder if there is someone just checking each movie these days to see if the author can be attacked on his personal character and exploited for some positive monetary gain. It seems odd to me that all these people are up in arms about this guy because he is a "dick" or whatever.

I am prorights I just don't see why we should be in the authors shit. It is WRONG, maybe it is nice for deconstruction of the work as an artistic expression. OTHERWISE I think this punishing people for their beliefs is WRONG. He doesn't advocate rape he is just standard Mormon.

[gajop]

I think it is not really political thread.

Maybe not, but I'd rather see some opinions about the movie instead.
Those who want to boycott watching due to the author's views have been well informed now I think, hopefully there's more to the movie than that...

[smoth]

I was kinda wondering when forb was going to post his review

[Forboding Angel]

Would the mods please delete AF's comment and everything posted after it (sans this post)?

I loved it. It does deviate from the book in parts, and I wish there had been more focus on battle school and in particular the battles, but the important bits were there.

Thanks to the stupid gay rights idiots, this movie has done poorly enough to ensure that no sequel will be made, so we all lose on that front.

Speaker for the dead was a great book an an evolution of the story at the end where Ender guards the queen, not to mention the curious alien race he encounters to whom death seems to be a welcome occurrence.

But no, you will never find out about any of that shit in movie form, and while card's stories are good, his writing is hopelessly boring.

Where were the gay rights idiots when card published the new Ender's game book that sold like hotcakes? There is only so much hypocrisy I am willing to endure.

Back to the movie...

As I said, the movie hit's all the important, bits, and thankfully, we hate Graff with a flaming passion by the end of the movie.

The way that the battle simulations are presented is incredible and reminded me of sins. I thought that was a really neat way to portray it.

However, there is a pretty big plot hole... In the book, the fleet had just arrived at bugger space and was fighting continually pushing them back.

In the movie, they are supposedly already at the bugger homeworld, despite the fact that there are a ton of battles before the homeworld one, so that didn't make much sense. It;s a minor oversight, but I wish they hadn't changed that bit. But it's minor enough so that it doesn't matter.

All in all, I believe that most of the changes actually improved upon the book. For example, in the book, ender is actually commanding the fleet from one of the moons of jupiter. In the movie, this is not the case.

That said... It took the fleet about 40 years to reach the bugger homeworld, in the movie, ender somehow ends up on one of the outskirt bugger planets within a day it seems.

So yeah, they made some fairly big fuckups, reality wise, but it doesn't detract from the movie.

But the fleet taking that long to get to the bugger worlds should be emphasized, because parts of the fleet arrived at different times, and ender was constantly commanding armies of varying antiquity.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point.

My advice, go see it. But don't expect the movie to 100% conform to every thing in the book, but to instead hit all of the points that matter, even down to Ender and Petra's practice sessions and ender coming up with the freeze your legs idea.

[AF]

Oh please, his point is the movie does well, the book will sell more and if the book sells more you are OK with/supporting the author's anti-homosexual beliefs?

That's not quite my point at all. They'll take it as a sign that bigots and homophobes don't impact sales figures. Book sales also mean hard cash in his pocket.

As for the slippery slope, perhaps it can be seen that way, but considering that Enders Game is now #3 in the combined print/ebook top sellers list, whereas last week it wasn't in the top #5, I'd say there is pause for thought.

[smoth]

AF people made it a big deal, now people are curious about his work. boycotts do not work.

[Anarchid]

FWIW i repeatedly catch myself thinking that maybe the people attempting to streisand-boycott Ender's Game and its sequels due to "author being a bigot" are in fact quite fat bigots themselves.

All in all, I believe that most of the changes actually improved upon the book. For example, in the book, ender is actually commanding the fleet from one of the moons of jupiter. In the movie, this is not the case.

That said... It took the fleet about 40 years to reach the bugger homeworld, in the movie, ender somehow ends up on one of the outskirt bugger planets within a day it seems.

How is that an improvement? It made for like a huge hint that it was known since somewhere in the middle of book that humans had FTL communication but only STL travel. Which conspired to allow the situation where Ender didn't actually know he was commanding a live fleet, thinking that all that was in sim - hence the planetbusting, as a "fuck your dumb game, i quit" move.

[BaNa]

I am a bit afraid to watch it as it would be my last big favorite childhood/teenage book that got made into a film and just recently I tried to remember what I imagined the Harry Potter universe to be like before watching the films and I have nothing, rereading them leads to a world that is undeniably that of the films, and that made me a sad monkey.

[PicassoCT]

I am a bit afraid to watch it as it would be my last big favorite childhood/teenage book that got made into a film and just recently I tried to remember what I imagined the Harry Potter universe to be like before watching the films and I have nothing, rereading them leads to a world that is undeniably that of the films, and that made me a sad monkey.

This. A thousand times this.

[AF]

Its thanks to the Streisland effect I'm now aware of Cards views, it works both ways.

[Forboding Angel]

It made for like a huge hint that it was known since somewhere in the middle of book that humans had FTL communication but only STL travel.

Noes. Einstein theorized that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, and that anything traveling at the speed of light would experience time dilation.

That is how it works in the books.

In Card's work[edit]
See also: Concepts in the Ender's Game series
Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game series uses the ansible as a plot device. "The official name is Philotic Parallax Instantaneous Communicator," explains Colonel Graff in Ender's Game, "but somebody dredged the name ansible out of an old book somewhere."[4]

Card's description of the ansible's functions in Xenocide involve a fictional subatomic particle, the philote. In the "Enderverse", the two quarks inside a pi meson can be separated by an arbitrary distance while remaining connected by "philotic rays". This concept is similar to quantum teleportation due to entanglement, although even that does not imply a possibility of faster-than-light communication. Also, in the real world, quark confinement prevents quarks from being separated by more than microscopic distances.

The ansible is also featured in the video game Advent Rising, for which Card helped write the story.

In the books, the fleet travels at the speed of light, but the distance is so vast it takes like 40 years for them to arrive. They are time dilated, so for the crews it is much less time, but in real world time, it is much longer.

For a prime example, refer to the book xenocide where it is explained in detail, and valerie is playing the part of the philosopher "Demosthenes" and is having to write papers and stuff every other hour in order for them to make it to earth every few months or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenocide