Web/Database Development

[Pxtl]

You can make simple python script and run it through CGI interface to understand how arguments are passed etc. Believe me, python is still very close to low level compared to those heavy asp.net frameworks where you can be completely clueless about web things like get parameters, cookies, etc..

Hell, the original ASP.Net framework is obviously intended to be used without CSS or custom javascript. To me, this is why ASP.Net fails - it tries to abstract the web away into a stateful control-based language, but does it poorly so instead need to understand the inner workings of ASP.Net, all the controls, plus all the web-stuff happening underneath in order to get anything done. It only behaves well in a narrow band of no-code-behind stuff... which means it was meant for somebody who knew neither HTML nor C#. C# coders find it hard to write reusable controls (all the poorly documented attributes you need to get it to play nice with the designer are a nightmare), and and traditional web-developers find the resulting markup a complete mess.

And if I never have to write another "FindControl" call again, it'll be too soon.

[Licho]

Wut? Without CSS or Javascript? What are you talking about :)
Each control has CssClass and Style property with graphical editor ..
And themese are just sets of CSS files..

You can write javascript fine, each control exposes ClientID and there is AJAX framework which is really simple to use. I use ajax/javascript and CSS in each and every site.
I mean in what language/framework you can just plop updatepanel to your website and have everything in it partially updated using ajax?

I think it was designed with this in in mind, its just if you don't want to, you dont have to make CSS because each control also has properties like BackColor which are translated into CSS style properties.

ASP.NET is very powerful, its incredibly easy to make complex data bound things with it quickly, because of its stateful controls. You can plop gridview, tell it to use this table/entity for binding and *blink* you have stylable grid with sorting, paging, editing, filtering, whatever.. Statefulnes of controls makes greater code reuse.
Its just because of this power, you have to understand it to be able to do more hacky things.

If you don't know how it works internally you can feel limited and if you come from traditional web development you will be completely confused for long time before it starts making some sense.

[SinbadEV]

no, I like ASP.NET... I use it at/for work and it's great for fast, flexible and reusable development... I'm trying to learn PHP mostly for the sake of trying something new and because I'd like to tie the application I'm envisioning to a PHPBB membership system... and also I'm planning on building every page in the application I'm envisioning from scratch so the "Control" driven paradigm didn't make as much sense (right now I'm thinking of simulating a deck of cards with an "array" of divs absolute positioned on the screen... could be done with a Repeater containing some controls and some... okay... my trial on Visual Web Developer expired... that's the real reason.

[AF]

jquery ftw

[Pxtl]

You can plop gridview, tell it to use this table/entity for binding and *blink* you have stylable grid with sorting, paging, editing, filtering, whatever.. Statefulnes of controls makes greater code reuse.

I more get frustrated with the CSS stuff when you get into messy controls like the FormView which is implemented using tables for no good reason. Or the validators, which include hardcoded styling.

And as for Javascript, my frustration more comes from the fact that I have to do a hellish mess of FindControl to _get_ something before I can even get it's clientID. Really, my rage at ASP.Net mostly stems from that - that everything is dynamically accessed in a statically-typed language. All the data is just "object", all the nested controls are just hidden away in ITemplate, etc. That, and the insane amount of attributes and obscure overriding if you want to make a custom control that actually plays nicely with the designer.

Also, I notice you didn't say inserting. Farking gridviews.

I'm just a curmudgeon, okay? Everything sucks.

[SinbadEV]

yeah... it takes about 10 lines of the right kind of code to make GridViews allow inserting... ASP.NET has this kind-of "gap" where you can do anything that Microsoft expects you do really easily if you figure out how they expect you to do it... and for everything else you have to really understand the underlying structure and do unholy things in order to get the desired result... for example, I know more about GridViews and FormViews than anyone should... and have done very dirty evil things with them... and as such, adding insert to them is relatively trivial.

When it comes down to it, ASP.NET is a very good front-end for data-entry applications.

[Pxtl]

I do too. And I utterly loathe MS for making me do it. Fundamentally, the issue I have with FormViews and GridViews is this: in order to get them to do what you want, you have to know so much about them that you probably could re-implement the damned things in an afternoon.

[CarRepairer]

jquery ftw

+1

[SinbadEV]

PHP5+ is supposed to have sqlite included by default but it doesn't work for me:

Fatal error: Call to undefined function sqlite_open() in C:\Program Files\Apache Software Foundation\Apache2.2\htdocs\test.php on line 24

where line 24 is

if ($db = sqlite_open('mysqlitedb.sqlitedb', 0666, $sqliteerror)) {

anyone know how to enable extensions?

[Licho]

php.ini

[SinbadEV]

figured it out... I hadn't included it in my installation of PHP (forgot the checkbox) so the DLL was missing and therefore when I tried to add it to the ini it wouldn't start the server

[Tribulex]

the greatest thing about php is trying to pronouce it phonectically, especially at meetings and conferences.

me talking to an employer: "oh and i have 5 years of coding experience in fehuape, er feep, um fup, fap? well whatever, but yeah as i was saying..."

[SinbadEV]

Grrr... the databases that PHP is making are sqlite but all the management software I can find is for sqlite3... I can't seem to figure out how to get sqlite3 working with php or find a management tool for sqlite... obviously I can just insert the tables/data myself but that's a pain.

[AF]

Codeigniter ftw

The Dataforge component of codeigniter makes it nice and easy. Its a veyr good php framework to use, Id reccomend you try it out

[Licho]

wut sinbad? The sql console IS the management tool..
What did you expect?

Ok if you are as lazy as me, try SQLite admin
http://sqliteadmin.orbmu2k.de/

[Erom]

the greatest thing about php is trying to pronouce it phonectically, especially at meetings and conferences.

I've heard it pronounced "peep" and "pee-heap". Neither are particularly good.

[SinbadEV]

Everyone I have heard say it say the letters.

[Tribulex]

Everyone I have heard say it say the letters.

yeah boring people usually have boring friends.

[aegis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjH9cEoEup8

[AF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=372Ah0Z_L1w Obligatory link