New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2 - Page 2

New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

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Google_Frog
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Google_Frog »

Saktoth wrote:Just wondering if there is anything preventing you from terraforming into space and walking on it in CA? Typemaps in the 'water'? Still wouldnt prevent building though. Its like that in a lot of space maps (you can even make ships on some). Though i dont suppose this would matter as much as one with several separate asteroids.

Ill test that myself when i get the chance.
Nothing will prevent you building floating buildings out there in any game that has floating buildings.

Maybe the engine needs a 'nothing' terrain type. Invisible, unwalkable, undeformable, unbuildable and orders can't be placed there.
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JohannesH
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by JohannesH »

Google_Frog wrote:
Saktoth wrote:Just wondering if there is anything preventing you from terraforming into space and walking on it in CA? Typemaps in the 'water'? Still wouldnt prevent building though. Its like that in a lot of space maps (you can even make ships on some). Though i dont suppose this would matter as much as one with several separate asteroids.

Ill test that myself when i get the chance.
Nothing will prevent you building floating buildings out there in any game that has floating buildings.

Maybe the engine needs a 'nothing' terrain type. Invisible, unwalkable, undeformable, unbuildable and orders can't be placed there.
In this case, planes absolutely must be able to place orders there though.
Google_Frog
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Google_Frog »

In this case, planes absolutely must be able to place orders there though.
Why? Planes can't place orders outside the map so why should they place them in the irregular map edge?
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

solution: make the water hyper acidic, or lava
Regret
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Regret »

Google_Frog wrote:Why? Planes can't place orders outside the map so why should they place them in the irregular map edge?
White is "nothing" type terrain. Not being able to order aircraft on it would be retarded.
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Neddie
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Neddie »

Google_Frog wrote:
In this case, planes absolutely must be able to place orders there though.
Why? Planes can't place orders outside the map so why should they place them in the irregular map edge?
Because the irregular map edge may not contain one unified region, and preventing all contact from region to region could make for some very dull games. Unless, of course, you decide to permit projectiles to pass from region to region and target from region to region... then you merely have illogical and inconsistent behaviour.
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Beherith
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Beherith »

I was planning on just adding a gadget with allowcommand in it, and limit the coords where orders can be placed.
But I found it to be unnecessary because I added a typemap and extremely high waterdamage. Plus the map isnt that big to make air flying around the asteroid such a big issue.
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SirArtturi
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by SirArtturi »

Simply amazing! Very photorealistic, definitely most realistic map ever made for spring. Eventhough map has some gameplay issues, like the water discussed above and the fact that its not very suitable for balanced gaming, it is still one of the best maps on the scene imo. Fits perfectly for showcases, screens, videos and other advertisement.

Now just make it even more sexy by adding the floating meteor features you mentioned and voila! I like how you are experimenting all kind of new things Beherith. Now we just need to get other devs and community to support such experiments and start to support mapping with new formats, features etc...
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Dragon45
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Dragon45 »

reminds me of old TA dark suns maps


gj
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manolo_
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by manolo_ »

its really awesome

its good to see such skilled mapper
Saktoth
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Saktoth »

After seeing it in game, i've gotta say its really good and has huge potential as a staple 1v1 map.

The top/bottom imbalance thing has been previously mentioned, it seems one side is easier to defend but has less metal close by: Im not sure how this will play out.

The vehicle pathmap is erratic. There are a few incredibly narrow gaps where vehicles can pass. I know its meant to be a bot map but if vehicles can be used on it, people probably will use vehicles on it. One way or the other, it would be nice if the pathing were just more consistent for vech, blocking them out or letting them be used (obviously, id prefer a mixed map). There is only one geniunely vech-impassable area, and thats the expansion to the west of the top player. Odd because it doesnt really look it.

On a more technical note, the typemap cuts off movement well before it really should- say the crater in the upper left. It probably wont really matter for anything other than flanking manouvers but its a little odd. The change in hardness means there will be ugly, jagged edges if there is ever deformation there.

Finally, the comet things will end up being a distraction. :( They look like projectiles.

Either way, its amazing as a showcase map, and id love to see other versions, larger, 2v2, or 3-way (Or 5-way, given how the hills are set up) FFA variants.
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Beherith
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Beherith »

Saktoth wrote:After seeing it in game, i've gotta say its really good and has huge potential as a staple 1v1 map.

The top/bottom imbalance thing has been previously mentioned, it seems one side is easier to defend but has less metal close by: Im not sure how this will play out.
Besides the top bit needing a bit of flattening, the balance seems to be working out pretty well.
The vehicle pathmap is erratic. There are a few incredibly narrow gaps where vehicles can pass. I know its meant to be a bot map but if vehicles can be used on it, people probably will use vehicles on it. One way or the other, it would be nice if the pathing were just more consistent for vech, blocking them out or letting them be used (obviously, id prefer a mixed map). There is only one geniunely vech-impassable area, and thats the expansion to the west of the top player. Odd because it doesnt really look it.
Didnt you hate typemaps? :P Also, the pathing for vecs on it is bad enough that if your gonna use vecs, your gonna pay the price as well. Map is extremely bumpy, Ill grant that. But this map is 100% visual with a map tacked on for actual playability. Its a concept map, and I didnt feel like sacrificing even a small amount of detail for playability.
On a more technical note, the typemap cuts off movement well before it really should- say the crater in the upper left. It probably wont really matter for anything other than flanking manouvers but its a little odd. The change in hardness means there will be ugly, jagged edges if there is ever deformation there.
The typemap early cutoff is because units would look wierd standing upright on a curved surface, thus destroying the illusion. I know, I might have sacrificed a bit too much for looks, but its just a concept map.

Jaggies: The texture under the voidwater is pitch black, not only to make the minimap not look wierd, but it saves like 30% on texture space. So I didnt want the black bits showing under any circumstances.
Finally, the comet things will end up being a distraction. :( They look like projectiles.
Imo theyre rare enough to just give you a wtf moment, and they really help in the immersion.
Either way, its amazing as a showcase map, and id love to see other versions, larger, 2v2, or 3-way (Or 5-way, given how the hills are set up) FFA variants.
Thanks, alot of stuff is in the planning stage at the moment, but its proving exceedingly difficult to add a proper good old spring heightmap to the top of an asteroid without sacrificing the naturality of the asteroid.
Since the map is pre shaded, Im hoping I can get away with areas that are smoothed a bit after texturing.
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CarRepairer
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by CarRepairer »

In this screenie here the map looks mostly flat (in fact I was surprised to see how bumpy it is when playing it).

Image
Saktoth
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Saktoth »

Given that 0 0 0 is invisible and shows anything underneath it, what do you think about the prospect of using a feature to fill out the underside of an asteroid? It'd probably be hard to get the blending right at the edges, but that would mean you can make an asteroid thats fully rounded. You could even make the whole thing black, using a feature to provide the texture/visuals, with an invisible terrain support.

This would actually allow a huge range of other things: Space ships or space stations with complex geometry that can be fought upon, overhanging cliffs, cities, etc. It would also allow you to vary the polycount to whatever you needed for the complexity of the area you are creating.

Of course they would not support terraforming/path map view/metal map view/etc.
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Beherith
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Beherith »

0,0,0 is NOT invisible. I tested it.
Until someone helps me figure out why, I cant rely on that.

Screw spring features, they are a nightmare. I would lua it in before I relied on a feature. I hate UVmapping too :(

My philosophy is the following for most mapping stuff: if it cant be dont procedurally, Im probably not going to do it. I know its sucky and lazy, but Ive grown to love the power of procedurality too much. Plus Im highly unlikely to be able to spend more than 2 days on a map.
Saktoth
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Saktoth »

So the holes arent due to that? Weird.

Uvmapping a crinkly sphere is easy. Hell, the spring maps are just projecting the texture downwards. Just do the same, on both sides.

Edit: Wasnt advocating typemaps BTW, was discussing pathmaps: Only thing i said about typemaps was that they encroach too far into the asteroid.

Gorgeous map anyway, keep pumping out!
Last edited by Saktoth on 21 Oct 2009, 18:21, edited 1 time in total.
Google_Frog
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Google_Frog »

The vehicle pathmap is erratic. There are a few incredibly narrow gaps where vehicles can pass. I know its meant to be a bot map but if vehicles can be used on it, people probably will use vehicles on it. One way or the other, it would be nice if the pathing were just more consistent for vech, blocking them out or letting them be used (obviously, id prefer a mixed map). There is only one geniunely vech-impassable area, and thats the expansion to the west of the top player. Odd because it doesnt really look it.
Didnt you hate typemaps? :P Also, the pathing for vecs on it is bad enough that if your gonna use vecs, your gonna pay the price as well. Map is extremely bumpy, Ill grant that. But this map is 100% visual with a map tacked on for actual playability. Its a concept map, and I didnt feel like sacrificing even a small amount of detail for playability.
I think the point is that the heightmap can be changed a little to make the pathing more consistent, typemaps is the lazy way that ends up not working when deformed.
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PicassoCT
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by PicassoCT »

Very impresive map, i draw my hat. Very nice natural use of shadows for the asteroids border
drawnhat.jpg
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MidKnight
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by MidKnight »

OH SNAP, HE DREW HIS HAT!
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

I was wondering if you could re-texture this so it has some faint height contrast lines, it can be quite difficult to spot height differences when playing from an isometric perspective

also, making the metal spots in the top start-point futher apart for IW/s44 balance :)
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