I just realized I kinda knew how to shade.

[Argh]

Well, then you can argue with the people who developed the Flamingo raytracer. I'm pretty sure it's mathematically correct.

[Argh]

That's weird. That last comment's hidden.

Anyhow, to repeat... that's the Flamingo raytracer. Pretty sure it's about as perspective-perfect as it gets, for Phong lighting test.

[aegis]

I don't think the shaded renders are using flamingo to its full potential - iirc flamingo was really dependent on the materials to achieve proper rendering.

[Tobi]

shading is affected by distance from the light source and shadows/reflections cast upon the surface.

Angle between surface normal and light rays have a much bigger influence then distance to light source usually, AFAIK.

If Argh rendered those images with an infinitely far away light (ie. all rays in parallel) with no distance attenuation then it makes sense that a perfectly flat surface has a single color.

[Argh]

No materials are being used, it's just a Phong solution. I can send that to Poser or another rendering system, if you'd like... I don't think you'll see any difference, though.

Here, I set up a distance light at approximately the angle I was trying to emulate:



As you can see, that nearly-flat part is evenly lit. If anything, I screwed up a bit by adding a bit too much shading to the top. Oh well.

[Hoi]

Aegis if you want it to look better, try again but this time think about how hard/soft your brush should be. Think about the opacity and the flow (if you use ps that is )

[aegis]

shading is affected by distance from the light source and shadows/reflections cast upon the surface.

Angle between surface normal and light rays have a much bigger influence then distance to light source usually, AFAIK.

If Argh rendered those images with an infinitely far away light (ie. all rays in parallel) with no distance attenuation then it makes sense that a perfectly flat surface has a single color.

but with a light source that far away, won't you have fun things like atmosphere/clouds, other objects reflecting light, and even the other metal on the object reflecting a bit of light onto it?

[Argh]

but with a light source that far away, won't you have fun things like atmosphere/clouds, other objects reflecting light, and even the other metal on the object reflecting a bit of light onto it?

Sure, but the total effect is fairly even, unless there's something obstructing it in a major way (or bending the light, i.e., that lens, or a strong reflection that bounces the ray straight at the viewer's retina).

That's how GI systems work, basically- shooting a lot of rays from a sky-sphere, and succesful rays get to brighten the result per facet.

But in this case, I just vaguely emulated GI, with a bit of brightness at the top, and a specular point where you'd see some reflection from the sun on the fairly reflective surface of the "lens".

It's an imperfect process, trying to do this by hand that fast, and I'm sure I screwed some of it up... just how it goes. The basic result is right, which is all that matters, on a quickie.

You're doing the process right, though- doing quick studies will make you get better, fast, and I wish I had more time to perfect various techniques, but I never do. Just don't forget that you need to study real-world lighting situations and classic painterly tricks, too. It's not an instant process, learning how to do this stuff.

[smoth]

Noob posts some beginer shit which is a big step.

other noob does...

experienced user tries his hand at it

kdr gives useful tips.

experienced user proceeds to argue with noob rather than let noob practice and get used to his new tools.

[Wolf-In-Exile]

That video demonstrates a horribly inefficient and imprecise way of making textures.

I suggest you do not adopt it into your photoshop skillset. Take the principles of shading by all means but not the method.

[smoth]

wolf, that doesn't help aegis improve.

care to help him understand some more efficient methods?

[Argh]

If you want to learn about how to shade using color, it's probably more useful to study classical painting techniques than anything else, imo.

What you do with paint is almost exactly what you're doing with Photoshop... the only difference is that Photoshop offers ways to speed the process up a bit. The physical process is vastly different, but art's mainly about understanding the intellectual and creative process of making what you want, how you want it.

Honestly, I'd suggest that people wanting to learn how to shade restrict themselves to nothing but the Airbrush and the color palette at first, and do speed runs to get comfortable with the basic concepts.

That way, they aren't cheating themselves by trying to use the fancy automation, and can learn the basics- value and hue, basic color theory, etc.

[aegis]

I actually do irl art, just have mostly no experience doing it in photoshop.
the theories are similar, but art *is* different when applied physically.

[Argh]

To some extent, yes, like the issues of color range, but frankly, it isn't all that different, in terms of concepts, until you get into advanced technical stuff, like working with color channels, working with textures and specific lighting techniques, etc., where all of a sudden we have to worry a lot about the specific technical limitations of the computer and the color range it can display.

I have worked in other mediums, I should say. Not an expert at most of the major visual mediums, but it's like anything else- if you wanna be an expert, you have to practice a lot, and I can't ever justify the time spent, when all of the practical art I need to do is digital. I like making sculptures, though.

You shouldn't have to worry about that at first- the key is to get the basics down.

The Airbrush is the tool to start with, because you can adjust the edge hardness and the flow, giving you extremely good control over the tool. One of the things I see with that first version you posted is it looks like you're using one of the round brushes, instead of the classic point blur brush. For whatever stupid reasons, that's the default brush, IIRC, but the point blur is superior for good control, in most situations, while the round edge is generally only good for line work where you're going to shrink it later.

In case "point blur" is too vague, it looks like this: The fuzzy edges will, at first, seem too imprecise, but trust me, they're incredibly useful. Oh, and one last thing- never use more than 15% flow, unless you're needing to paint in a large area! I generally use between 3 and 10% flow, and just keep moving. There are exceptions to that, it's a fairly vague rule of thumb, but I honestly recommend getting in the habit of using low flow settings- it's a lot easier to get very precise control over value that way.

Anyhow, I know most of that will either sound crazy and / or "d'uh", but try it, it's really simple and it works.

[aegis]

I've used a high-end wacom tablet with photoshop and it is so much different from using a pencil

[KaiserJ]

looks great aegis!

haha i can think of at least one spring game that could probably use your texturing skills

[Forboding Angel]

^^ what he said ;p

[Wolf-In-Exile]

wolf, that doesn't help aegis improve.

care to help him understand some more efficient methods?

I actually do irl art, just have mostly no experience doing it in photoshop.
the theories are similar, but art *is* different when applied physically.

- Learn to make and use paths (Pen tool), they will save you alot of work especially for repeating features or selections. (for example, the circular shapes in your first post).
- Learn to use Layer Masks. This is one of the most useful tools in Photoshop, I use it in almost everything I do in PS. Also an essential tool to use in conjunction with paths.
- Use layer adjustments to lay a foundation for creating depth and form on the flat shapes you made (e.g. Bevel/Emboss on a flat circle to make it appear as a dome with just a few clicks and adjusting sliders, as opposed to manually painting in the shading).
- Once you've laid down the (probably too perfect looking) shapes with basic volume, only then do you start employing your 'physical' art skills for adding imperfections and further detailing with brushes to make it look more natural.