The Modern Spring player, for better or worse / Autobalance

[smoth]

The Question: Why do I bother spending hours making these things if noone has the patience to wait 5 mins for everyone to download them.
The Answer: Tbh I don't anymore, the only new map I've seen semi-succeed in the last year has been Nuclear Winter, and even that has much the same gameplay to DSD due to it's size and layout

heh, put yourself in IW/s44/Gundam's shoes. We have releases that are huge in size. In fact I got so sick of players not having the official maps that I included them with the last release >:|

[hunterw]

community is too small and the game changes too much depending on the map so dsd is here to stay

[Nixa]

community is too small and the game changes too much depending on the map so dsd is here to stay

Correction, the ability to porc changes too much depending on the map, that and people freak when they see something new because they don't know what to do?

[Argh]

people freak when they see something new because they don't know what to do?

Yes.

Why do CS players play so much Dust2? Because it's consistent. You don't have to worry about the map, you just worry about playing the game. In competitive play, it's always like this. Nobody should be surprised.

[Nixa]

Well, if your gonna compare an FPS to a RTS, then you get a real time shooter. There is no strategy in DSD games, well, there is but you decide it before the game starts and hope like hell it works. There is no political freedom to go around the porc, so in a sense, exactly the same a dust2 CSS game

[JohannesH]

But dsd is not competitive play

[Nixa]

Neither is public servers of CS

[Argh]

There is no political freedom to go around the porc, so in a sense, exactly the same a dust2 CSS game

Exactly my point. But that's what the vast majority of the players of any online game obviously want.

So the real question is, if that's what they want, how can game designs / maps bring that to them while still being interesting over the longer haul? I don't have a complete answer for that one, but I thought I'd say that I think that that's a question worth asking.

[Gota]

Did I not propose half a year ago to limit game size for players under a certain rank?
The higher your rank the bigger games you will be able to play.
In this way all noobs will have played smaller games where they will have better chances of learning to play well because they will have more responsibility over the entire game and larger games,where its harder to cooperate,will be reserved to more experienced players that have more game time.
This will also help vs since new accounts will not be able to join big games.

[zwzsg]

Gota: Except, that is not what Noob want. Noob want large team game with no responsability. They don't want to have to attempt to learn the game alone in strings of 5mins rape.

I mostly deal with new non-*A players, they generally...

* Are shy
* Play in private games with friends
* Play between 1v1 and 3v3
* Start out with the custom AI supplied
* Come in clusters of nationality, usually between two and five in number
* Are skittish

So true! Also, found out downloading a couple meg is a big deal for them.

[Gota]

so what if they don't.
I also don't want moderation in the lobby so I can troll all day and post goatse.
Shoudl there be no moderation and should I be bale to post anything I want cause i want to?
Having to play a 4v4 instead of a 8v8 will not stop them from playing spring,guaranteed.
It will no doubt break the dsd monopoly and allow more maps to be played and newbies will be more skilled on average.
It's a balance between exactly what a single player wants and what is best for the community.
The higher ranked a player is the bigger games he can join.
It's not like there wont be any 8v8 games,they will just be reserved for the more experienced players.

Less smurfing in bigger games.
More maps will be played.
better player quality overall.
Something to look forward to as you progress through the ranks.
More motivation for mappers to create different maps.

I truly think that something like this,in this veriation or some modified one,should be implemented.

[smoth]

no you said to limit the game size for all players.

[Gota]

no you said to limit the game size for all players.

Initially,in the first post,yes,than I changed it to what I just described.
You can go check...

[Nixa]

I agree with Alex, think about it, not so long ago spring was limited to 5v5 anyhow, and theres not that many more players on now than there was back then, just different ones. Besides if noobs didn't know what 8v8's were to start with then there wouldn't be this problem.

[Beherith]

Gota: Except, that is not what Noob want. Noob want large team game with no responsability. They don't want to have to attempt to learn the game alone in strings of 5mins rape.

Quoted for emphasis, only proper tutorials and missions could mitigate this.

[JohannesH]

Kick autohosts with too high player limit

[Auswaschbar]

Gota: Except, that is not what Noob want. Noob want large team game with no responsability. They don't want to have to attempt to learn the game alone in strings of 5mins rape.

Quoted for emphasis, only proper tutorials and missions could mitigate this.

There is no game I know where you can prevent getting raped in your first multiplayer games by playing tutorial and missions.

[Gota]

Iv seen 8v8 dsd games ending in 10-15 minuts.
If you want noobs to not get owned allow the poor newbie bastards to fucking make a room that limits max rank.
If you allow newbies to only allow slightly better players into their rooms or people of their level it will be fine.

Tutorials are an excellent idea.I wish there were some.

[zerver]

They are:
Unpatient

Indeed. Younger guys maybe? Patience seems to come with age...

[Nixa]

You see the problem here is (using DSD as prime reference):

Noobs get forced to start at front = they lose (but they get combat experience) and the team usually wins (>50%)

and...

Noobs start at back = the team wins (>50%), but they have no influence on the game (and that makes them think they've done well with their adv solars, so they do it next game, and the next game... and the cycle continues)

Well I know you guys are gonna rip that apart but you get the point. Either way the only way they'll learn is by being in the action like the old days. I remember I was playing WarC (and winning ^^) when I was a 4 bar. I challenge any legit 4 bar to take on the clans these days and put up even the slightest of a game.

Overall the problem being that this has now spread throughout the entire ranking system, I've seen vets that may aswell be 2 bars therefore throwing balancing all over the show. This then rubs off on clans who get abused for stacking, even if theres technically just as many experienced players on the other team. If they're not prepared to play better, then don't take it out on the clans who are.

And don't tell me that some people aren't naturally as good as others. If you've spent 300 hours on a %#$#%^g RTS game you should know how to @#$#$%#g play the game.