6465 wasn't even available until I was committed to 6359, and I have not tested it for functionality of SpringLobby TASClient (both were broken in 6423, but maybe the issue with the missing Installer files has been addressed). If neither SpringLobby nor TASClient is fixed in 6465+, then I'm stuck until I either have the files that are missing or LordMatt fixes the Installer.
At any rate, I will *try* to dig up the time to test that and repackage. I hate distributing something that doesn't work very well, but my choices were all pretty awful, frankly.
As for Linux builds... I want something that's not just a collection of files and some instructions, or whatever. I do not want the usual connotations of "cheap" that I get, whenever I see something distributed like that.
Now, I know that executable solutions are probably impractical, simply because they might fail to operate in any given build of Linux... so, does anybody have some ideas about this one? I know zero about how the Linux community does things, when it wants to make an impressive installer. I don't mind if I have to point people at Spring, or whatever- that's fine, they have to compile the game to play it. I just want the presentation of the game's install to be well-done. I don't want a "free game" look, basically- if I'm going all-out here, then I'm not really willing to give Linux users less of a show than Windows users.
P.U.R.E. 0.8 RC3
Moderators: Moderators, Content Developer
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
The lion's share of Linux users would be fine with an Ubuntu-compatible Debian package.
The remainder of users are used to obscure "fetch it from source and compile it yourself" situations, so complicated instructions won't phase them.
The remainder of users are used to obscure "fetch it from source and compile it yourself" situations, so complicated instructions won't phase them.
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Auswaschbar
- Spring Developer
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: 24 Jun 2007, 08:34
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
Springlobby and TASClient are downloaded from a seperate source. You can combine a working spring.exe with a working TASClient.Argh wrote:6365 wasn't even available until I was committed to 6359, and I have not tested it for functionality of SpringLobby TASClient (both were broken in 6423, but maybe the issue with the missing Installer files has been addressed). If neither SpringLobby nor TASClient is fixed in 6465+, then I'm stuck until I either have the files that are missing or LordMatt fixes the Installer.
Sorry, but all games are, in fact, just a collection of files.Argh wrote:As for Linux builds... I want something that's not just a collection of files and some instructions, or whatever. I do not want the usual connotations of "cheap" that I get, whenever I see something distributed like that.
Now, I know that executable solutions are probably impractical, simply because they might fail to operate in any given build of Linux... so, does anybody have some ideas about this one? I know zero about how the Linux community does things, when it wants to make an impressive installer. I don't mind if I have to point people at Spring, or whatever- that's fine, they have to compile the game to play it. I just want the presentation of the game's install to be well-done. I don't want a "free game" look, basically- if I'm going all-out here, then I'm not really willing to give Linux users less of a show than Windows users.
Linux installer: Most of the linux software (>90%) are installed through the distributions package managers (or distributed as such packages like .deb, .rpm), wich is easy-to-use, secure, safe etc. Most of the other ways of distributing software for linux is made of fail.
You can make packages yourself or ask someone to help, maybe people will make packages yust because they like your game. But "you must not make packages out of it" is not the way to encourage someone.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
Look, I'm not trying to be an arse about it, I just want a classy distribution, if possible. Games are a "collection of files", yeah- but presentation counts, too.Linux installer: Most of the linux software (>90%) are installed through the distributions package managers (or distributed as such packages like .deb, .rpm), wich is easy-to-use, secure, safe etc. Most of the other ways of distributing software for linux is made of fail.
So... I know zero about deb, etc., is anybody willing to work with me on that? I'll happily make all the files available, that's not a problem at all. PM me about it, let's get that party started.
All right, then I'll grab 6465+ and combine it all, and hope that it all works. If it fails testing, that's just how it goes. Dunno when I'm going to be able to dig up time to do this, we'll just have to see.Springlobby and TASClient are downloaded from a seperate source. You can combine a working spring.exe with a working TASClient
Oh, and... stuff keeps happening at a ridiculous rate. I've just gotten a magazine request, and I know, and everybody else here knows, that the Spring version being distributed is not-quite-ready. I guess I will absolutely have to make a new version of the installer tonight
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
the gameplay is horribly slow and fails in alot of areas need to fix and balance pure
just had a 2v2 with CA dev's
just had a 2v2 with CA dev's
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
Define all of those very vague words you're using, please. I can't fix things that I do not know are broken.
What, specifically, didn't work for you? Explain your starts, what happened, if you saw any units that were massively UP/OP for cost, etc.
What, specifically, didn't work for you? Explain your starts, what happened, if you saw any units that were massively UP/OP for cost, etc.
Last edited by Argh on 16 Sep 2008, 16:44, edited 1 time in total.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
argh: the usual solution to time problems is to let other people do your work. bonus points if they're happy to be doing it 
oh btw had a quick look at resistance.
what I liked:
- graphics and help system is win
what I didn't like:
- infantry prone/stand should be different buttons (or set status based on majority vote) -- currently if you select one guy and make him prone, you can't make the whole group prone without this one standing up. not sure if it's a serious issue in actual gameplay, but it is irritating.
- Group button needs a hotkey btw, I find it hard to believe there isn't one, I hope I just missed it somehow
- no high trajectory for the big arty - i'd expect arty to shoot over hills.
- unit highlight circles don't disappear in fps mode (irritating when fpsing a plane).
- jetpack infantry is hard to gather once they're airborne. could use a Land command so they gather at one place.
what I didn't do:
- play against any opponent, even AI ;p
oh btw had a quick look at resistance.
what I liked:
- graphics and help system is win
what I didn't like:
- infantry prone/stand should be different buttons (or set status based on majority vote) -- currently if you select one guy and make him prone, you can't make the whole group prone without this one standing up. not sure if it's a serious issue in actual gameplay, but it is irritating.
- Group button needs a hotkey btw, I find it hard to believe there isn't one, I hope I just missed it somehow
- no high trajectory for the big arty - i'd expect arty to shoot over hills.
- unit highlight circles don't disappear in fps mode (irritating when fpsing a plane).
- jetpack infantry is hard to gather once they're airborne. could use a Land command so they gather at one place.
what I didn't do:
- play against any opponent, even AI ;p
Last edited by imbaczek on 16 Sep 2008, 16:52, edited 4 times in total.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
If it was slow, ur doin it rong.
The balance is pretty good from what I've seen. Explain please?
@argh: If you can figure out how a deb package is made (and tell me), I could prolly do it as I have an ubuntu hardy install (I need to know how to do it for evolution anyway).
The balance is pretty good from what I've seen. Explain please?
@argh: If you can figure out how a deb package is made (and tell me), I could prolly do it as I have an ubuntu hardy install (I need to know how to do it for evolution anyway).
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
@imbaczek: I know, I know... delegate, I've heard about that 
Seriously though... who wants to make a .deb or has other input about that? Remember, my working Linux knowledge is zero... I do need some assistance here.
I've gotta go here in a few minutes, to earn a living, so if anybody's out there with some ideas, great, I'll get the files ready and stuff when I get back again.
Also... meh, I don't know how much or how far the publicity-train is going to go, or whether it's headed to Disasterville or not (but what the hell, it's not like publicity is going to be an entirely bad thing), but I am willing to take others along, if possible.
If there are other indie-game people who would like to talk about some sort of cooperative strategy going forward... I'm still willing to do that. I don't know what that means right now- maybe a collective installer, maybe just cross-promotion... but I'd appreciate very much if people would think about all of this, we should milk it for all it's worth, and to the maximum benefit of the collective whole.
Seriously though... who wants to make a .deb or has other input about that? Remember, my working Linux knowledge is zero... I do need some assistance here.
I've gotta go here in a few minutes, to earn a living, so if anybody's out there with some ideas, great, I'll get the files ready and stuff when I get back again.
Also... meh, I don't know how much or how far the publicity-train is going to go, or whether it's headed to Disasterville or not (but what the hell, it's not like publicity is going to be an entirely bad thing), but I am willing to take others along, if possible.
If there are other indie-game people who would like to talk about some sort of cooperative strategy going forward... I'm still willing to do that. I don't know what that means right now- maybe a collective installer, maybe just cross-promotion... but I'd appreciate very much if people would think about all of this, we should milk it for all it's worth, and to the maximum benefit of the collective whole.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
lol good balance (i guess this why evo fails to)
Everything is horribly off possibly the worst balanced rts ive ever played (more so than red alert 1) ill explain now.. But apart from that graphically its cool
First off the gameplay is annoyingly slow and big map games take an eternity to finish unless you use OP units
The OP stuff
That stupid little Satelite that calls beams of dooms. If the fact it was cheap and unkillable by fighters for some reason wasnt bad enuff u gave it 4000 range wat the qq were u thinking. A closeish game was single handedly ended by a few of these.
Metal Maker eco << its the most OP metal maker eco ive ever seen. The fact overmind can seemingly run a whole early game base on one fusion then you can just spam fusion/makers and not need to expand.
If your resistance all you should do is maek heavy mech and Satelite. Heavy mech for cost owns pretty much every overmind unit.
Seems Resistance got all the love and overmind has been seemingly shunned/neglected (apart from overpowered economy) the only stuff worth building is SPC for the range and gundrone spam.
also the resistance airlab seems to have special damage from gundrones and it self nanoshields in build form making it invincible to air it took 150 gundrones 3-4 minutes to kill one air lab that was on 20 percent health
Worlddestroyer is just a big walking bomb that u use for the explosion
alot of the units seem redundant and its just overall bleh
Also the lack of visual assisiting indicators is annoyign u dont know whats building what.
Another thing are you loading all the music on RAM (big no no...)
gundrone/guncraft thingy is missing its model
For the most complete game with the nicest visuals/help and installation package the gameplay seems utter fail :/ go fix it has/had good potential but in its current form its unplayable
(ive gathered all this info from 5-6 2v2's)
Everything is horribly off possibly the worst balanced rts ive ever played (more so than red alert 1) ill explain now.. But apart from that graphically its cool
First off the gameplay is annoyingly slow and big map games take an eternity to finish unless you use OP units
The OP stuff
That stupid little Satelite that calls beams of dooms. If the fact it was cheap and unkillable by fighters for some reason wasnt bad enuff u gave it 4000 range wat the qq were u thinking. A closeish game was single handedly ended by a few of these.
Metal Maker eco << its the most OP metal maker eco ive ever seen. The fact overmind can seemingly run a whole early game base on one fusion then you can just spam fusion/makers and not need to expand.
If your resistance all you should do is maek heavy mech and Satelite. Heavy mech for cost owns pretty much every overmind unit.
Seems Resistance got all the love and overmind has been seemingly shunned/neglected (apart from overpowered economy) the only stuff worth building is SPC for the range and gundrone spam.
also the resistance airlab seems to have special damage from gundrones and it self nanoshields in build form making it invincible to air it took 150 gundrones 3-4 minutes to kill one air lab that was on 20 percent health
Worlddestroyer is just a big walking bomb that u use for the explosion
alot of the units seem redundant and its just overall bleh
Also the lack of visual assisiting indicators is annoyign u dont know whats building what.
Another thing are you loading all the music on RAM (big no no...)
gundrone/guncraft thingy is missing its model
For the most complete game with the nicest visuals/help and installation package the gameplay seems utter fail :/ go fix it has/had good potential but in its current form its unplayable
(ive gathered all this info from 5-6 2v2's)
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Google_Frog
- Moderator
- Posts: 2464
- Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 09:24
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
Some thoughts from some 2v2s:
Reasonable energy income is too easy to get, it feels like it's off by a factor of 10. There's a similar situation with materials.
Interceptors can't hit air. That's probably a bug.
The sky laser is really really really OP.
The heavy mech looks like it's the best ground unit but a long shot.
Why do tanks have longer range than artillery?
Turrets are very effective and bog the game down.
Reasonable energy income is too easy to get, it feels like it's off by a factor of 10. There's a similar situation with materials.
Interceptors can't hit air. That's probably a bug.
The sky laser is really really really OP.
The heavy mech looks like it's the best ground unit but a long shot.
Why do tanks have longer range than artillery?
Turrets are very effective and bog the game down.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
You might want to explain yourself here, cause with this statement you sound like a bleeding idiot. Regardless this is the pure thread so I'll keep evo out of it.Otherside wrote:lol good balance (i guess this why evo fails too)
Couple comments...
Lolwut? Try looking? Select factory and look at your queue?Also the lack of visual assisiting indicators is annoyign u dont know whats building what.
It's like 4 songs using a total of what, 30 mb if that? I can tell you right now, if you're trying to play it on your mom's dell with a whole 1.0ghz proc and 512 or ram you're in for a rough ride.Another thing are you loading all the music on RAM (big no no...)
Edit: Take some tips from google frog for how to give good feedback.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
forb stfu really
its enough that you think every1 is conspiring against you (Spring downloader module...)
but my feedback is pretty detailed on the problems pure suffers
and im running a quadcore 3.6 ghz with 4 gb ram and a 1024mb gfx card. No pure does not lag on my machine. But the game itself eats 700 mb of ram at start of game which could be a problem for other users.
Also the fog on some of the world builder maps is to heavy and really kills FPS
its enough that you think every1 is conspiring against you (Spring downloader module...)
but my feedback is pretty detailed on the problems pure suffers
and im running a quadcore 3.6 ghz with 4 gb ram and a 1024mb gfx card. No pure does not lag on my machine. But the game itself eats 700 mb of ram at start of game which could be a problem for other users.
Also the fog on some of the world builder maps is to heavy and really kills FPS
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
While I do think a .deb would be nice (as I am also a Ubuntu user), it is generally not that easy to set up and really only works on Unbuntu (which is about 30% of the linux users, with gamers maybe more).
My best suggestion would be to talk to these guys:
http://liflg.org/
But I would be equally happy with a simple .zip of the compiled files (really the most universal and hassle free way to do it).
My best suggestion would be to talk to these guys:
http://liflg.org/
But I would be equally happy with a simple .zip of the compiled files (really the most universal and hassle free way to do it).
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
@Otherside: thanks, this is a lot more useful. Keep in mind, also, that I mainly play on small maps, as I think that large ones in any game tend towards giant, lengthy games. It sounds like you played on WorldBuilder_GPL every time... which is a totally different experience than Foothills or SwampMountain.
Here's what I'll do, based on what I've heard:
1. Cost of MetalMakers will double or more, to slow down that curve. Can always lower it later. But the whole MM econ is a feature, not a bug- Overmind can porc and turret-creep, and that's part of the way they work.
2. Ion Laser will take longer to build (it's already ridiculous, but what the heck, it's a game-ender), take longer to recharge, and cost more, and I'll figure out what's going on with the "invulnerable to fighters"- if true, that's a bug, plain and simple.
3. Heavy Mech will get a nerf on DPS.
Other than that... it sounds like, in general, Overmind needs some buffs. I'd like to hear some more specific things about that, as other than a few fixes of major things from 0.55 (UltraAssault spam issues and a few other things) and some buffs to damage on a few things, it sounds like I need to address some details.
At any rate, thanks for the feedback, I'll see what I can do.
@Google_Frog:
Here's what I'll do, based on what I've heard:
1. Cost of MetalMakers will double or more, to slow down that curve. Can always lower it later. But the whole MM econ is a feature, not a bug- Overmind can porc and turret-creep, and that's part of the way they work.
2. Ion Laser will take longer to build (it's already ridiculous, but what the heck, it's a game-ender), take longer to recharge, and cost more, and I'll figure out what's going on with the "invulnerable to fighters"- if true, that's a bug, plain and simple.
3. Heavy Mech will get a nerf on DPS.
Other than that... it sounds like, in general, Overmind needs some buffs. I'd like to hear some more specific things about that, as other than a few fixes of major things from 0.55 (UltraAssault spam issues and a few other things) and some buffs to damage on a few things, it sounds like I need to address some details.
At any rate, thanks for the feedback, I'll see what I can do.
@Google_Frog:
Yup, that's a bug. Drat!Interceptors can't hit air. That's probably a bug.
Ok, two votes in that direction. Should I heavily nerf the damage, the range... what is the really big factor here, in terms of this unit?The sky laser is really really really OP.
Which tank? You mean the Overmind's Tank vs. the Artillery Shell? Help me out here...Why do tanks have longer range than artillery?
Question is, how to deal with the "bogged down" issues. I mean... Overmind has MortarTanks, Resistance has the Ion Laser... both sides have aircraft. What else do people need, to crack a really effective porc? And is the issue mainly that certain turrets get built really fast, vs. actually being able to destroy them? I mean... on the Overmind side, the Tank out-ranges just about any of the cheap turrets, and owns them pretty easily with a RadarTank along for the ride... help me out here.Turrets are very effective and bog the game down.
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[Krogoth86]
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: 23 Aug 2007, 19:46
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
The music really hurts my ears - is there a way to turn it off? Maybe also let it check for hitting F6 to disable sound as it keeps playing with that...
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
OM needs something to make them expand better.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
we played on all 3 maps which were included in the pure installer
and the only overmind units that seem useful in some form were
Sniper suit
The missile truck vehicle (only cos it hit air)
and the tank with emp
Worlddestroyer just cause of health and explosion
Guncraft (there best unit)
and most of the statics were good but it bogged down the game like google said
but heavy mech pretty much one shot all of these units anywayz so resorted to plasma cannon spam
maybe give overmind to con's along with commander at start of game(commander sucks tho and dies very easily)
and the only overmind units that seem useful in some form were
Sniper suit
The missile truck vehicle (only cos it hit air)
and the tank with emp
Worlddestroyer just cause of health and explosion
Guncraft (there best unit)
and most of the statics were good but it bogged down the game like google said
but heavy mech pretty much one shot all of these units anywayz so resorted to plasma cannon spam
maybe give overmind to con's along with commander at start of game(commander sucks tho and dies very easily)
Last edited by Otherside on 16 Sep 2008, 18:03, edited 1 time in total.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
Made a help request in the Freegamedev.net forum for the Linux version:
http://forum.freegamedev.net/index.php? ... #msg_11342
http://forum.freegamedev.net/index.php? ... #msg_11342
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.8
Give it a rest, buttface.Otherside wrote:forb stfu really
its enough that you think every1 is conspiring against you (Spring downloader module...)
As for the performance stuff, good feedback, and that's a pretty hardcore machine you got there. Is the vid card ATI or Nvidia? What sort of card is it?
The fog issue is disturbing as that's from the same widget I believe as what noize used on oooeee or however that map is named. Does that map cause any serious fps eatage for you (trying to pinpoint any potential problems here because there are a lot of us that intend to use worldbuilder in the future)?
Additionally, this is unrelated but I'm using it as a point of reference. Guildwars consistently eats about 500 - 600mb of ram everytime I play it, and that game is several years old. Has anyone noticed this in any other games (I should check Grid and COD4 when I get home)? Basically I'm trying to figure out if this is horribly abnormal behavior.
@argh, I did notice that the constructors repair stuff really really fast and make nanoshielding quite effective. You might consider hunking down their repair rate.