XTA + OTA - bad stuff = balance and fun?
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I would say that you forgot the Weasel/Jeffy. I know that they're build time is much higher than the Flash/Instigator and that they suck up more energy but still, one Jeffy kills one Flash in a head to head fight. That can't be right. They could use some downgrading.SJ wrote:Next spring version will include some changes to xta. Current changes are
Goliath/Krogoth 20% more expensive
Goliath less accurate
All units (except mines etc) +50% los
Gunships -10%hp
Fighters +30 damage against air, +20% against land
Necro/Fark can resurect
Also, i could also complaint about the mohos. The thing is, when you have excess energy and not enough metal, you build metal makers. But when you run out of energy and you have excess metal, you can't turn it into energy (maybe some nukePowPlants should work like that). So, energy and metal are not similar exchangeable things. Energy can flow into metal but metal can't flow into energy. But i wouldn't complaint about this not changing. The Weasel/Jeffy, though, they should really be downgraded.
Although people also complaint about the Krogoth, i don't see any reasons (yet) to change it. I haven't saw it as unbalanced because it's price is as astronomical as it's power.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Energy is almost a constant resource. It can be attained anywhere, and acts as a balancing factor. Metal, on the other hand, is very limited, and it is basically the prime factor behind all combat.
Therefore, it makes no sense to have metal flow to energy. If you are badly stalling on energy; turn some stuff off!
But, I don't play XTA. I prefer OTA, and I don't like the instant availability of all units in XTA.
Therefore, it makes no sense to have metal flow to energy. If you are badly stalling on energy; turn some stuff off!
But, I don't play XTA. I prefer OTA, and I don't like the instant availability of all units in XTA.
Min3mat's comments about the stumpy aren't all that wise. Making a single unit w/ 10-20% more hp, 10-15% more range, and more damage EXPONENTIALLY makes that unit better. If you've ever played min3mat or watched his videos you'll realize that this guy ONLY uses flashes and stumpies. He'll use a few jethros here and there to counter air, but thats all he does. Rarely does he go lvl2 other than structures and even more rarer does he not have a chinese HORD of flashes with stumpies in the mix to fire over the flashes and debri.
No offense to anyone chinese or asian.
No offense to anyone chinese or asian.
i normally don't play ppl good enough to last that long and go to lvl2 and if i do they normally beat ME before the game reaches lvl2!!! 
rushing OWNS
A nice long lvl2 battle i uploaded to FU was on Metal Isles v2 gg lots of units both got to lvl2 quick. called CoolSeabattle watch it and see what you think
rushing OWNSA nice long lvl2 battle i uploaded to FU was on Metal Isles v2 gg lots of units both got to lvl2 quick. called CoolSeabattle watch it and see what you think
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
That's how most people play, Ted.
If he always uses the same units, then its very easy to learn his strategems and figure out how to counter them. People who do the same thing every time are just predictable. If you batter him down (suggestion: try some missile kbots, as they are cheap, longer ranged then flash/stumpy and are better suited to traversing the chopped up battlefield), he'll just have to vary his tactics.
If he always uses the same units, then its very easy to learn his strategems and figure out how to counter them. People who do the same thing every time are just predictable. If you batter him down (suggestion: try some missile kbots, as they are cheap, longer ranged then flash/stumpy and are better suited to traversing the chopped up battlefield), he'll just have to vary his tactics.
i do vary my tactics late game moving in the way of kbots and lvl2 aircraft with nukes (love em even though they suck) and radar jammers etc. i just rarely get the chance to play someone that skilled. if lathan wasn't being such a ass at the moment accepted my apology then maybe you guys would have a kick-ass replay to watch ¬_¬
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I remembered a few other things!SJ wrote:Next spring version will include some changes to xta. Current changes are
Goliath/Krogoth 20% more expensive
Goliath less accurate
All units (except mines etc) +50% los
Gunships -10%hp
Fighters +30 damage against air, +20% against land
Necro/Fark can resurect
# The Dragons Teeth cost 8 Metal and have 3500 HP. That's 437,5 HP per Metal spent. I think that they should cost more or have less HP or both. I think that if they had around 100 HP per Metal spent, would not be too few HP... A DT of 8 M would have 800 HP which is the HP of a full Flash. Destroiable and probably still usefull.
# The mines are too cheap. Especially if the terrain deformation is not fixed (having the terrain be increasingly hard to deform the more it is deformed).
The combinations of large maps, usage of DT, mine fields and impassable craters created by mines, makes the game slow as hell.
In the article of SupCom, Chris Taylor does say that they removed (water) mines because it slowed down the game.
[Edit]
# And about the "Radar Targeting Facility", how about making it make Radar become LOS, instead, since Radar Targeting is built-in and having one doesn't seem to increase the aim of units, anyway...?
[/Edit]
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
And another thing!
The Necro and the Fark are already so valuable units that sometimes people do not build anything else (well, exagerating a bit...).
And, if things get fixed, they will also be able to ressurect.
I think that the Necro/Fark should be downgraded. It could be just simply making them unable to build anything on they're own, leaving them with «only» they're high mobility, they're insane build speed and they're ressurection capability.
The Necro and the Fark are already so valuable units that sometimes people do not build anything else (well, exagerating a bit...).
And, if things get fixed, they will also be able to ressurect.
I think that the Necro/Fark should be downgraded. It could be just simply making them unable to build anything on they're own, leaving them with «only» they're high mobility, they're insane build speed and they're ressurection capability.
or introduce a unit with the current FARK/Necro stats costing 2-3 times more (making it more of a late game thing) and make it so that the FARK/Necro can do ONLY what they are supposed to!!! ¬.¬ for those who dont have good memories that would be REPAIR and RESSURECT NOT Uber build super fast all-terrain ownage buildey bot >.<
Thats where your wrong... to quote myself...I would say that you forgot the Weasel/Jeffy. I know that they're build time is much higher than the Flash/Instigator and that they suck up more energy but still, one Jeffy kills one Flash in a head to head fight. That can't be right. They could use some downgrading.
Min3matKixxeerm wtf, scouts are better than tanks, but because of another idiocy they take ages to build...scouts take LONGER than TANKS to build...and that makes it OK? xta fanboy
No, that means that when faced with jeffys vs flashes there are gonna be more flashes then jeffys. Jeffy buildtime= 4000 ish. Flash buildtime = 1500 ish. In a 1v1 the flash wins, and on top of that, the jaffy has about 900 hp while the flash has 1100. And the jeffy is more exspensive, costing 200 energy and about 10 more metal.
The scout is strong, but is inferior to the flash. The only good thing about it is it's speed! Maybe it can get to the base faster then a flash and attack erlyer then a flash sqwad would.
And if hes a xta fanboy, everyone on this forum is a fanboy of their own mod...
IF thats a bad thing, dunno?
Try a 1v1 vs a flash in xta. Flash wins. I tryed a 4v4, a 3v3 and a 1v1 drive bye with both. Flash won, except when weasel started to run away and shot from far away.
Scout = strong. Flash = stronger.The scout is strong, but is inferior to the flash.
How much more ovbius do i have to get?
F.A.R.K.= Fast Assist and Repair Kbot.Min3mat wrote:or introduce a unit with the current FARK/Necro stats costing 2-3 times more (making it more of a late game thing) and make it so that the FARK/Necro can do ONLY what they are supposed to!!! ¬.¬ for those who dont have good memories that would be REPAIR and RESSURECT NOT Uber build super fast all-terrain ownage buildey bot >.<
The FARK was specifically designed to be an uber build super fast ownage buildey bot.
The OTA Cavedog Necro is so buggy, expensive, and with a small nanolather it already can't have any other use that rezzing.Cavedog, in the txt that came with the unit wrote:ARM FARK - UNIT DESCRIPTION
For 480 metal and 3219 energy, the ARM Advanced Kbot Lab can build the FARK. The Fast Assist-Repair Kbot is a small and fast unit capable of reclaiming metal/energy, repairing and building assistance.
Factories surrounded by FARK is good thing, and must be kept. It's one of the strongpoint of TA that made it so enjoyable and that no any other RTS have.
look kixxe what im trying to say is a scout SHOULD build faster than a tank be WEAKER FASTER. i.e. a CHEAP scout to SCOUT your enemies. THEY SHOULD be quicker to build than TANKS....ONE ON ONE a scout is STRONGER than a TANK which is WRONG. using scouts as a army => is unfeasable and on many maps using TANKS as SCOUTS is encouraged.
OTA uses SCOUTS to SCOUT and HARASS the enemy base TANKS to ATTACK and DAMAGE the enemy base. thats how it should be in xta. period.
OTA uses SCOUTS to SCOUT and HARASS the enemy base TANKS to ATTACK and DAMAGE the enemy base. thats how it should be in xta. period.
Yes, maybe a scout should be built faster.look kixxe what im trying to say is a scout SHOULD build faster than a tank be WEAKER FASTER. i.e. a CHEAP scout to SCOUT your enemies. THEY SHOULD be quicker to build than TANKS....ONE ON ONE a scout is STRONGER than a TANK which is WRONG. using scouts as a army => is unfeasable and on many maps using TANKS as SCOUTS is encouraged.
OTA uses SCOUTS to SCOUT and HARASS the enemy base TANKS to ATTACK and DAMAGE the enemy base. thats how it should be in xta. period
Im just saying that those who use the wesals to ''attack'' are stupid.
The flash is cheaper, builds faster, damages more and has more hp then the weasel.
The weasel is faster and has a 5% longer range.
In short, using weasels are perfect for harrasing the enemys metal extraktors/solars/important undefend buildings. I seen many games where weasels are used to kill off whole bases.
But a flash would do the job twice as fast. And even with out build assist, you get 2and› flashes with the same buildtime. (with 2 and › more costing, offcourse....)
And tell me something, how many times have you seen a flash engade a weasel out on the open? You know, away from the harrasing and killing off the base?
0? 4 out of 20? Ive seen no cases.
AND NO! THE WEASEL DOES NOT BEATS THE FLASH IN A 1V1! I CHECKED!
Ergo a weasel can win, but you sure gotta micro it much more then a flash...I tryed a 4v4, a 3v3 and a 1v1 drive bye with both. Flash won, except when weasel started to run away and shot from far away.
Im not sure about core situation...
Last edited by Kixxe on 22 Jul 2005, 12:44, edited 1 time in total.
lvl 1 units.
A.K.<=zipper<=pewee<=stumpy<=raider=instigator<=freaker<=jeffy<=weasel<flash=hammer<=flea<thud<leveler
= equal (almost).
<= within 1 shot or less of difference. (about 10-40 hp).
this is more of a raw power - HP test.
the units where standing still within los at shot distance.
(min wp range).
(no radar coverage, no manuver).
(1v1)
then i gave the unit to the other team.
this doesnt take into account unit cost, build time, speed, range, los,
accuracy, or weapon type.
the tests where done more than once. (till i was satisfied).
the results in the field can be very different.
for example, a zipper can take 5 pewees if it manouvers, but a pewee will never be able to kill 5 zippers.
The flea is blind.. the view radius is very small, thus its very inaccurate if its not mixed with some other unit.
It takes 3.5min to build.
A better description for the flea is lvl1 assault kbot.
Hammers, once they uncover its weapon, are way more dangerous (not more than a thud)...
Jeffys and weasels have a very small weapon range...
making them very useless if they are not real close to its target,
this also means that can be aoutperformed very easily by a unit with more range, (i.e. A.K.).
Stumpys and raiderds can shoot over small hills or dt aswell as thuds and hammers.
Comparing, a freaker to a zipper in the list above, it seem the freaker is way superior, (at least 4 shots superior :p )
but a ziper is faster and has larger weapon range (300 vs 315), being able to outperform freakers if managed properly.
(may be hard to do).
In weasel vs instigator, if i put the weasel at the max instigator range,
the instigator wins.. (makes 2 or 3 more shots).
same happens to almost all units with larger range.
also, laser weapons are more accurate and dont use to miss its target.
in the other hand, flashes miss more frequently.
Artillery and tanks are quite precise, but may fail too.
arm
zipper<pewee<weasel<hammer<flash<flea
i'm lazy or what?
A.K.<=zipper<=pewee<=stumpy<=raider=instigator<=freaker<=jeffy<=weasel<flash=hammer<=flea<thud<leveler
= equal (almost).
<= within 1 shot or less of difference. (about 10-40 hp).
this is more of a raw power - HP test.
the units where standing still within los at shot distance.
(min wp range).
(no radar coverage, no manuver).
(1v1)
then i gave the unit to the other team.
this doesnt take into account unit cost, build time, speed, range, los,
accuracy, or weapon type.
the tests where done more than once. (till i was satisfied).
the results in the field can be very different.
for example, a zipper can take 5 pewees if it manouvers, but a pewee will never be able to kill 5 zippers.
The flea is blind.. the view radius is very small, thus its very inaccurate if its not mixed with some other unit.
It takes 3.5min to build.
A better description for the flea is lvl1 assault kbot.
Hammers, once they uncover its weapon, are way more dangerous (not more than a thud)...
Jeffys and weasels have a very small weapon range...
making them very useless if they are not real close to its target,
this also means that can be aoutperformed very easily by a unit with more range, (i.e. A.K.).
Stumpys and raiderds can shoot over small hills or dt aswell as thuds and hammers.
Comparing, a freaker to a zipper in the list above, it seem the freaker is way superior, (at least 4 shots superior :p )
but a ziper is faster and has larger weapon range (300 vs 315), being able to outperform freakers if managed properly.
(may be hard to do).
In weasel vs instigator, if i put the weasel at the max instigator range,
the instigator wins.. (makes 2 or 3 more shots).
same happens to almost all units with larger range.
also, laser weapons are more accurate and dont use to miss its target.
in the other hand, flashes miss more frequently.
Artillery and tanks are quite precise, but may fail too.
arm
zipper<pewee<weasel<hammer<flash<flea
i'm lazy or what?
Last edited by mongus on 22 Jul 2005, 08:24, edited 9 times in total.
fleas are better than flashes! they are supposed to be a scout unit too! 
