Tutorial spin off - Page 2

Tutorial spin off

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Gota
Posts: 7151
Joined: 11 Jan 2008, 16:55

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by Gota »

Why are you arguing about it.
WE ca ndevide the tutorial into a few parts each with an increasing complexity level or just different part of the game.
But its best if we have even the basics.
AS i said if we make it modular we can just add and redo certain parts after a while.
Making good tutorials also requires experiance so slowly they will get better and better if people actually try to make them and improve them.
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SwiftSpear
Classic Community Lead
Posts: 7287
Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by SwiftSpear »

I say make the tutorial in sections selected by the player at the end of each block (like coh for those who played it). Let players skip the boring stuff they already know and do the stuff they don't know, or just do the whole tutorial if they aren't sure.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3359
Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by CarRepairer »

In-game tips are the way to go. Small unobtrusive but readable text on top of everything necessary.
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pharoph
Posts: 408
Joined: 16 Jan 2008, 02:04

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by pharoph »

in game tips fail. nobody reads them and they are annoying for people who already know them.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3359
Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by CarRepairer »

pharoph wrote:in game tips fail. nobody reads them and they are annoying for people who already know them.
REALLY?!
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NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
Posts: 3984
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 19:29

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by NOiZE »

yarly
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pharoph
Posts: 408
Joined: 16 Jan 2008, 02:04

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by pharoph »

ingame tips is that little box that pops up at the start of the game with a stupid pecie of advice like, to group units cntrl,, blablabla.
and yet that can be explanded in a ingame tutorial in about 5 seconds.
and another 5 seconds for the player to practice it.

ingame tips are annoying, and test people on how good the know it.
WE ALL HATE TESTS DONT WE?
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Evil4Zerggin
Posts: 557
Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by Evil4Zerggin »

I agree that full tutorials are a far better introduction than in-game tips. Which isn't to say that some in-game documentation is a bad thing; it's useful for looking up some information without leaving Spring. But I don't think it's really suited to be a primary learning tool.

+1 to dividing tutorial into parts.
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pharoph
Posts: 408
Joined: 16 Jan 2008, 02:04

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by pharoph »

what could be a good idea if the player forgets parts of the interface is he could enable a lua called help, so when activated the screen is fulled with information about the interface easily viewable.
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Crayfish
Posts: 481
Joined: 12 Feb 2008, 12:39

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by Crayfish »

To be honest, I find the CA in game tips really annoying. It's great have an accessible, searchable encyclopedia to get more information about units, but having it thrust in your face constantly mid-battle when you first install it is irritating.
malric
Posts: 521
Joined: 30 Dec 2005, 22:22

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by malric »

What about 'smart' in game tips ? Usually when I spec you can see some obvious mistakes a player makes (wind on solar maps, having tons of storage and not sharing, does 1 mexes and stops expanding, doesn't use line formations, doesn't use groups, etc).

Also, maybe it would be nice to have some kind of "show the tip to player". For example, it is very difficult to explain to someone how to share one unit (try to do that in game - it takes a lot of messages, and the battle is also going on). Maybe you also have ideas or problems like this ...

This should be of course mod dependent, and maybe not that intrusive as the CA ones, but they might help.
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pharoph
Posts: 408
Joined: 16 Jan 2008, 02:04

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by pharoph »

the small ingame tips is like they learning system we have at the moment where players give tips to the noobs. for the tip system to acutaly know the right time and what tip to give to the player is very complicated/bad idea.

malric wrote:Also, maybe it would be nice to have some kind of "show the tip to player". For example, it is very difficult to explain to someone how to share one unit (try to do that in game - it takes a lot of messages, and the battle is also going on). Maybe you also have ideas or problems like this ...

This should be of course mod dependent, and maybe not that intrusive as the CA ones, but they might help.
i dont think that would be a good idea either. idiotic players or spammers can spam tips to a cirtain player causing the player to get very mad. resulting in a rage quit.
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AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20687
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by AF »

What I was suggesting and what CA has implemented where not the same thing. CA spams you with little windows that just pop out fo nowhere.

Instead CA would best implement something similar to what populous 3 had, where blocks would fall down and you could click on them to show messages.

CA text is also too verbose and does not autohide. if anything the help should be image based.
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Evil4Zerggin
Posts: 557
Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by Evil4Zerggin »

malric wrote:What about 'smart' in game tips ? Usually when I spec you can see some obvious mistakes a player makes (wind on solar maps, having tons of storage and not sharing, does 1 mexes and stops expanding, doesn't use line formations, doesn't use groups, etc).
As dumb as humans can be, computers are even dumber when it comes to RTSing (this isn't to say that our AI devs aren't skilled, just that it's not an easy task). Despite all the work that's gone into AIs, they're not anything approaching what even a novice human could do, and I doubt one could make a computer much better at giving advice without a lot of work. Better to show the human the tools of the game in a controlled environment (i.e., dedicated tutorial missions) and let them draw their own conclusions.

Question: Is LuaRules THE way to make tutorial missions, or is there some other single-player client/interface/other black magic complete/under development?
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14673
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Tutorial spin off

Post by Forboding Angel »

I'm not gonna bother explaining how or why, but argh has completely obsoleted tips or any other sort of thing that this thread direction is taking.

Once you see it in action it's pretty much... Ooohh shit, that's cool!
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