Tutorial spin off
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Tutorial spin off
Why are you arguing about it.
WE ca ndevide the tutorial into a few parts each with an increasing complexity level or just different part of the game.
But its best if we have even the basics.
AS i said if we make it modular we can just add and redo certain parts after a while.
Making good tutorials also requires experiance so slowly they will get better and better if people actually try to make them and improve them.
WE ca ndevide the tutorial into a few parts each with an increasing complexity level or just different part of the game.
But its best if we have even the basics.
AS i said if we make it modular we can just add and redo certain parts after a while.
Making good tutorials also requires experiance so slowly they will get better and better if people actually try to make them and improve them.
- SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Re: Tutorial spin off
I say make the tutorial in sections selected by the player at the end of each block (like coh for those who played it). Let players skip the boring stuff they already know and do the stuff they don't know, or just do the whole tutorial if they aren't sure.
- CarRepairer
- Cursed Zero-K Developer
- Posts: 3359
- Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48
Re: Tutorial spin off
In-game tips are the way to go. Small unobtrusive but readable text on top of everything necessary.
Re: Tutorial spin off
in game tips fail. nobody reads them and they are annoying for people who already know them.
- CarRepairer
- Cursed Zero-K Developer
- Posts: 3359
- Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48
Re: Tutorial spin off
REALLY?!pharoph wrote:in game tips fail. nobody reads them and they are annoying for people who already know them.
Re: Tutorial spin off
yarly
Re: Tutorial spin off
ingame tips is that little box that pops up at the start of the game with a stupid pecie of advice like, to group units cntrl,, blablabla.
and yet that can be explanded in a ingame tutorial in about 5 seconds.
and another 5 seconds for the player to practice it.
ingame tips are annoying, and test people on how good the know it.
WE ALL HATE TESTS DONT WE?
and yet that can be explanded in a ingame tutorial in about 5 seconds.
and another 5 seconds for the player to practice it.
ingame tips are annoying, and test people on how good the know it.
WE ALL HATE TESTS DONT WE?
- Evil4Zerggin
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34
Re: Tutorial spin off
I agree that full tutorials are a far better introduction than in-game tips. Which isn't to say that some in-game documentation is a bad thing; it's useful for looking up some information without leaving Spring. But I don't think it's really suited to be a primary learning tool.
+1 to dividing tutorial into parts.
+1 to dividing tutorial into parts.
Re: Tutorial spin off
what could be a good idea if the player forgets parts of the interface is he could enable a lua called help, so when activated the screen is fulled with information about the interface easily viewable.
Re: Tutorial spin off
To be honest, I find the CA in game tips really annoying. It's great have an accessible, searchable encyclopedia to get more information about units, but having it thrust in your face constantly mid-battle when you first install it is irritating.
Re: Tutorial spin off
What about 'smart' in game tips ? Usually when I spec you can see some obvious mistakes a player makes (wind on solar maps, having tons of storage and not sharing, does 1 mexes and stops expanding, doesn't use line formations, doesn't use groups, etc).
Also, maybe it would be nice to have some kind of "show the tip to player". For example, it is very difficult to explain to someone how to share one unit (try to do that in game - it takes a lot of messages, and the battle is also going on). Maybe you also have ideas or problems like this ...
This should be of course mod dependent, and maybe not that intrusive as the CA ones, but they might help.
Also, maybe it would be nice to have some kind of "show the tip to player". For example, it is very difficult to explain to someone how to share one unit (try to do that in game - it takes a lot of messages, and the battle is also going on). Maybe you also have ideas or problems like this ...
This should be of course mod dependent, and maybe not that intrusive as the CA ones, but they might help.
Re: Tutorial spin off
the small ingame tips is like they learning system we have at the moment where players give tips to the noobs. for the tip system to acutaly know the right time and what tip to give to the player is very complicated/bad idea.
i dont think that would be a good idea either. idiotic players or spammers can spam tips to a cirtain player causing the player to get very mad. resulting in a rage quit.malric wrote:Also, maybe it would be nice to have some kind of "show the tip to player". For example, it is very difficult to explain to someone how to share one unit (try to do that in game - it takes a lot of messages, and the battle is also going on). Maybe you also have ideas or problems like this ...
This should be of course mod dependent, and maybe not that intrusive as the CA ones, but they might help.
Re: Tutorial spin off
What I was suggesting and what CA has implemented where not the same thing. CA spams you with little windows that just pop out fo nowhere.
Instead CA would best implement something similar to what populous 3 had, where blocks would fall down and you could click on them to show messages.
CA text is also too verbose and does not autohide. if anything the help should be image based.
Instead CA would best implement something similar to what populous 3 had, where blocks would fall down and you could click on them to show messages.
CA text is also too verbose and does not autohide. if anything the help should be image based.
- Evil4Zerggin
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 06:34
Re: Tutorial spin off
As dumb as humans can be, computers are even dumber when it comes to RTSing (this isn't to say that our AI devs aren't skilled, just that it's not an easy task). Despite all the work that's gone into AIs, they're not anything approaching what even a novice human could do, and I doubt one could make a computer much better at giving advice without a lot of work. Better to show the human the tools of the game in a controlled environment (i.e., dedicated tutorial missions) and let them draw their own conclusions.malric wrote:What about 'smart' in game tips ? Usually when I spec you can see some obvious mistakes a player makes (wind on solar maps, having tons of storage and not sharing, does 1 mexes and stops expanding, doesn't use line formations, doesn't use groups, etc).
Question: Is LuaRules THE way to make tutorial missions, or is there some other single-player client/interface/other black magic complete/under development?
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Tutorial spin off
I'm not gonna bother explaining how or why, but argh has completely obsoleted tips or any other sort of thing that this thread direction is taking.
Once you see it in action it's pretty much... Ooohh shit, that's cool!
Once you see it in action it's pretty much... Ooohh shit, that's cool!