Sprite support + Fixed Camera

[AF]

You are the only person in the thread who has discussed or even hinted at the word 'isometric'.

[Neddie]

I used to do Sprite based artwork and animation. I was learning it when it became a dead-end.

[Forboding Angel]

jesus... you just don't get it.

FUckit there isn't any point in arguing with someone who doesn't understand that some people (NOT ME, I COULD GIVE A FLYING SHIT) care to work with sprites rather than models. If you don't believe me, just go as the ORTS ppl exactly what the fuck they think they are doing.

I'm done.

Edit: Oops, seems that orts started using actual models instead of sprite as some point. Wasn't aware of that.

[Kloot]

Do you seriously think a project dedicated to *AI research* like
the ORTS engine used sprites out of big artistic considerations
and some grand distaste for all things 3D?

[AF]

sprites are far easier to make than models

[FLOZi]

sprites are far easier to make than models

Rubbish.

[Neddie]

sprites are far easier to make than models

Rubbish.

Seriously, AF, I was maybe a year into spriting and trust me, not easier to do than models. You can't split the workload - you have to make the colour palette, make the stills, make the animations - one person, one vision. With 3D modeling you can divide responsibilities between multiple people. The total work might be greater in some instances, but it can be tackled in discreet amounts by multiple people.

[Argh]

jesus... you just don't get it.

FUckit there isn't any point in arguing with someone who doesn't understand that some people (NOT ME, I COULD GIVE A FLYING SHIT) care to work with sprites rather than models. If you don't believe me, just go as the ORTS ppl exactly what the fuck they think they are doing.

I'm done.

Forb, I'm 100% sympathetic to that POV.

The problem I immediately confronted was that what I came up with would be perfect for ripoff projects, and I am rather concerned about having those floodgates opened due to something I said- remember, the Big Guys do occasionally read through what we post around here.

If you know somebody who really wants to develop that sort of content... put them in contact with me, privately, and I'll talk to them about it, and get a feel for how serious they are (because tbh, you're never going to make a game the way I came up with unless you're totally dedicated and ready for a lot of very hard work).

I'm just not willing to publish the solutions in public, and risk having my name associated with, say, a StarCraft ripoff, etc. That's all. Sorry that this was more flame-war-ish than was really required, but AF just doesn't get it, and won't get it until he tries executing an animated character in an isometric style, frankly.

Lastly... AF... other than games like Bullfrog's late, great Magic Carpet series... isometric has been the style, because of the faux-3D look. A "flat" overhead-perspective game is also quite possible, using what I've thought up, but there just won't be much demand for a game that looks that primitive, other than maybe a space game, like an Escape Velocity RTS, tbh.

[Dragon45]

[Forboding Angel]

Stuff

Sounds good. Sry for losing my cool, but it was a simple request gendered towards getting even more people interested in spring, and all of a sudden I want to steal content. I dunno how anyone would even make that leap, but meh, whatever works.

[TradeMark]

i would like sprite support, would make some old-school feeling.

thats just bullshit it wouldnt increase rendering speed, 1 quad vs 200 quads multiplied by 1000 = 200000 vs 200 quads thats a huge difference.

[AF]

erm? I think people are taking the whole definition of sprite and adding an extra set of rules ontop.

By easy, i mean, it would be easier for someone to sketch a doodle scan it in and put it on a unit rather than figure out how to model it if they've never had that experience.

Or even to sue concept art in place of models during the modelling stage so someone else can add the units and balance them while your modelling. It'd be so much easier to see a picture of what its meant to look like rather than a copied model.

[Neddie]

erm? I think people are taking the whole definition of sprite and adding an extra set of rules ontop.

By easy, i mean, it would be easier for someone to sketch a doodle scan it in and put it on a unit rather than figure out how to model it if they've never had that experience.

Or even to sue concept art in place of models during the modelling stage so someone else can add the units and balance them while your modelling. It'd be so much easier to see a picture of what its meant to look like rather than a copied model.

Clip Art != Sprite

It just doesn't.

Yes, what allows spriting will allow clip art use, but very, very few people will play that on a three-dimensional field unless the clip art is consistent and attractive.

[Jasper1984]

Not all sprite based artwork is commercial

Are those sprites non-commercial? What is their license? Here are other ones of the same. Actually i was planning to ask the maker whether he would allow me to use them, since they are pretty good. You don't need these from multiple angles, because they are drawn from above.

As for sprites from multiple directions, they could be automatically generated from models. Not that isometric units are desirable in that many cases. Maybe as LOD.(with low-resolution pictures, because it is far away anyway.)
As for isometric views, well, it might be useful to provide it, if the map-system of spring is works library-like. If it does not, it might clutter the code too much. Isometric views, when done with software, can be faster. You only need to draw the edges when the view moves.(There is also a trick with shifting the pointer to the image involved.) Actually, i was under the impression that OTA used this.

I am getting rather curious how spring works internally.. Maybe i should look at the source :).

[Snipawolf]

Watch your eyes...

[TradeMark]

You only need to draw the edges when the view moves

Spring uses that kind system, zoom in to the ground and you see your FPS rising.

[Jasper1984]

Spring uses that kind system, zoom in to the ground and you see your FPS rising.

You must have misunderstood. Spring can not use the system i am speaking of, because springs view is not isometric. Parallel viewlines allow you to know that the image of the ground just shifts in the viewpicture when the eye moves. This is simply not true when the eye rotates or the view has perspective. It also does not work when you zoom in.(Well maybe it can, but doubt it is very advantageous.)

Not sure why springs fps increases when you zoom in, there is less to draw. I am sure that the engine uses that. Could be that trees and terrain increase their LOD. Edit: mixed up increasing and decreasing fps.

[jK]

Spring uses that kind system, zoom in to the ground and you see your FPS rising.

You must have misunderstood. Spring can not use the system i am speaking of, because springs view is not isometric. Parallel viewlines allow you to know that the image of the ground just shifts in the viewpicture when the eye moves. This is simply not true when the eye rotates or the view has perspective. It also does not work when you zoom in.(Well maybe it can, but doubt it is very advantageous.)

Not sure why springs fps increases when you zoom in, there is less to draw. I am sure that the engine uses that. Could be that trees and terrain increase their LOD.

every heard of frustum culling?

[TradeMark]

yeah, thats why i said "that kind"

[Jasper1984]

every heard of frustum culling?

Oh i mixed up increase and decreasing fps.
Frustum culling is simply determining what is in view and not drawing what is outside. Saying something uses frustrum culling does not say too much, because it does not say whether is also makes use of data structures like quad trees to do so.