transport dropping

smokingwreckage · Post by **smokingwreckage** » 08 Jun 2005, 10:19

Maybe this could be achieved with a new unit? Call it a drop pod for example. You attach it to a unit and when given a "drop there" command it flies in, drops its load, and returns to start? What about an expendable drop pod that takes the unit in and then dies, representing strapped-on rockets?

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 08 Jun 2005, 10:41

That could work, kixxe, but presumably it would be quite difficult to do.

However, it is rather a fusion of the 'quick drop' and the 'slow drop' styles, which is quite clever. Basically, instead of the atlas transport dropping a unit from way up, or slowly traversing to directly above the drop zone and lowering down, the unit begins to descend logarithmically towards its target, dropping it at ground level, without stopping so that it continues travelling at its flight speed as it flies away. The point being that the transport doesn't lose speed at any point during the the unit drop. This means that it flies at its maximum flight speed, throughout the process, making it far less likely to be shot down, making it entirely battle ready.
Of course speed and armour adjustments would probably be nifty too.

And smokingwreckage, most people don't use new units. Adjusting a current unit (atlas/valkyrie) forces everyone to use it. When it is a good change, as in this example, this is a good thing.

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 08 Jun 2005, 20:38

properly used, lvl1 tranports are very quick to move troops.
build 10+ (20 suggestedfor large battles, its cheap to do so.), select them all, click repeat, load point, unload point.
Done.

IF YOU COULD ONLY USE MORE THAN ONE POINT BETWEEN LOAD AND UNLOAD!!
right now, the path between load and unload, is always a straight line.
thus, its impossible to "avoid" some non desired point between them, with only one batch of transports.
with several tranport fleets and more routes, you can do some nice distribution paths.
(ver .4 was last time i tried to do that).

edit: durandal, maybe you play so good that need no tips, someone may find it usefull.
(as did i when i found out (read) this).
btw any tips on doing non straight Tranport routes?.
e2: sorry there Durandal, you will find air tranport VERY usefull this way.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 08 Jun 2005, 23:14

(thanks for the tip, Mongus. I'll make sure to, ah, surprise my friends next time)

Mongus: there's no sarcasm in my post. I genuinely mean what it says I mean.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 09 Jun 2005, 03:24

Mongus, that isn't the issue under discussion. Just to placate you, however, you will still definitely be able to do that with the new transport method.

The point is that you couldn't load up 10 transports, and then drop them right into the midst of the action, because the transports would be shot down before they had the opportunity, probably costing you your attack force.

The proposed changes allow transports to get into and out of combat areas without slowing down, hence allowing them to not only quickly perform their air drop, but significantly reduce their chances of being shot down.
Furthermore, with units being able to survive being shot down in a number of situations, the risk of transporting is reduced significantly as well.

Doomweaver · Post by **Doomweaver** » 09 Jun 2005, 07:59

How about making it so that air transports descend at almost the speed that a unit wold normally fall at? Make a bit of dirt fly up when the unit hist the ground, and it could improve gameplay without being kind of retarded.

Or, perhaps better, just make air transports faster.

Redfish · Post by **Redfish** » 09 Jun 2005, 10:16

mongus wrote:properly used, lvl1 tranports are very quick to move troops.
build 10+ (20 suggestedfor large battles, its cheap to do so.), select them all, click repeat, load point, unload point.
Done.

IF YOU COULD ONLY USE MORE THAN ONE POINT BETWEEN LOAD AND UNLOAD!!
right now, the path between load and unload, is always a straight line.
thus, its impossible to "avoid" some non desired point between them, with only one batch of transports.
with several tranport fleets and more routes, you can do some nice distribution paths.
(ver .4 was last time i tried to do that).

edit: durandal, maybe you play so good that need no tips, someone may find it usefull.
(as did i when i found out (read) this).
btw any tips on doing non straight Tranport routes?.

Uhm avoid part of the map:

load -> move -> unload. Works for me

AF · Post by AF » 09 Jun 2005, 13:23

I dont like parachutes at all.
Aircraft dives in low altitude and sweeps up units, goes off, dives and drops units and zooms off, though soudns good, infact I half suggested it later on. Maybe if someone would actually script that out and measure its effectiveness against the atlas and zwzsg parachute transport.

I had 10 kbot adv kbot labs ins oem obscure palce churnign out mavericks so I put a loada transports and covered the entire area as a pick up zone. I came back 109 minutes later to find transports trying to pick up units midway through construction, spinning over my factories.

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 09 Jun 2005, 16:58

Redfish wrote:Uhm avoid part of the map:

load -> move -> unload. Works for me

Well, after some testing, yep, it works.(maybe it was fixed, or i didnt do it right last time)
But that orders will lead your transport to fly over the non desired point (enemy base) when returning to reload (remember the repeat option is active).

To avoid the point both times, you have to do something like this:

Load > Move > Unload > Move

There is a trick anyhow, you have to issue all orders BEFORE the transports lifts any cargo.

(leave them a bit appart from load point?)
If you fail to do it before the load, you have a straigth route between load and unload again. maybe using the jeffy bombing technique its not that tricky.
Nice idea alantai, i beleive the C-130 does that while flying unload.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 10 Jun 2005, 04:14

In terms of transport dropping, this is how I think it should be done:
(And yes, I know I nicked a bomber, but I'm lazy, and I couldn't be bothered looking hard)

As you see, the transport loses height rather quickly, then a short distance above the ground, it simply drops the unit. This unit falls a short way, not enough to deal damage, but enough that the transport never loses speed placing the unit on the ground. Then it simply flies off.

To me, this would not only look very cool, but functionally greatly increase the speed at which transports work, and through that, their usefulness in a combat situation.

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 10 Jun 2005, 05:01

Why must it fall? Why can't the transporter go just a little bit lower to avoid damage?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 10 Jun 2005, 08:36

Why mustn't it ? Fallin five-ten feet isn't going to hurt a robot suit.

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 10 Jun 2005, 10:14

Have you ever dropped a robot suit 2-3 meters?

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 10 Jun 2005, 10:16

If the transport actually places the unit on the ground, it would look strange, as physically, it should slow down. If it drops the unit a fraction above the ground (about a metre / 3-5 feet), the unit won't take any damage (come now, these are study robots we are talking about here), and the transport won't look strange as it deposits units on the ground without losing speed (by Newton's laws; momentum and friction. You may think I'm going too realistic here, but the brain actually assumes various things, so that if something goes against the laws of physics, it looks strange, even if you technically don't know why).
Also, I think it will look better having a transport swoop down and drop a unit, rather than having it slowly deposit a unit.
Finally, in terms of functionality, because the unit is travelling so fast, dropping is a better option. If there is some obstruction, the unit will 'push' the other unit out of the way as it comes down (as units already do), or it will simply shift over unpassable terrain, whereas a transport which is attempting to unload the unit by placing it down will be travelling at its full speed, so that if the target area is blocked, or impassable, it will simply have to turn around and make another run (no time for corrections, as it isn't hovering about deciding where to place the unit), which increases the time in which it can be shot down (and reduces the time which your loaded unit is active on the ground for).

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 10 Jun 2005, 10:24

Cobra - these aren't modern-day robots we're talking about. Even the construction vehicles are designed to take a beating and keep on going.

AF · Post by AF » 10 Jun 2005, 16:49

Durandal is right, and besides I think it's a lot better, and it's only a very slight variation fo what I suggested for unloading, and some sorta swoop down and scoop the unti up movement for loading fast. Whatsmore the unti damage and allt he extra physics required are implemented in sean mirrsens engine changes and almost completely in the SY's latest version, it'd just be a matter fo scripting.

And to be honest the c-130 doesnt look that good amongst my space age robots.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 10 Jun 2005, 18:24

if this feature is used it probably won't be mainstream (after asking for a repulsor on that thread i just got ignored

) but even if it is/isn't i'd like to see a transport with at least 3-4x as much life as a atlas with 3-4 of those cool weak lasers hurricanes get so that u can distract your enemys pel swarms and air drop sumos in the middle (or on top :D) of them :) that would rock

hehe also would bring a bit more tactics to a strategy game. talking of such i'm gonna create a thread on 'strategy and tactics' with a my definition :)

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 11 Jun 2005, 07:00

Min3mat, it would have widespread use, because I am not saying it should be used for mod units, I'm saying this is the way TA's inbuilt transports, being the Atlas and Valkyrie should work.

Its not a matter of being widespread; everyone will use it, because it is the only option available.

Of course, mods should be able to activate the oldstyle loading if they so wished.

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 11 Jun 2005, 20:32

Maybe transport aren't mean to drop unit directly to the battle front, but to move units quickly between secure zones?

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 11 Jun 2005, 20:44

well, that what they are used for now. But the reson we (who?) created this treadh was that they should be usefull for combat!

So what now? most thinks that the idea should be implented, but who will do it? is anyone alredy working on it? am i missing something?

Spring RTS Engine

transport dropping