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SwiftSpear
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Re: wow.

Post by SwiftSpear »

I've attended a couple Christian schools. Frankly, I'm not incredibly impressed with the whole doctrine as law thing any more. To me there's something fundamentally wrong with telling people that in order to be good people they need to uphold certain actions in and of their own character, and then forcibly making it virtually impossible to commit said actions anyways.
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ianmac
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Re: wow.

Post by ianmac »

I like Jesus too. Thats why I'm a christion.
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Comp1337
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Re: wow.

Post by Comp1337 »

i went to that college it made me a great person
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Boirunner
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Re: wow.

Post by Boirunner »

ianmac wrote:I like Jesus too. Thats why I'm a christion.
Christianity does entail more than just the teachings of Jesus, as we just discussed before. Actually, most everyday beliefs commonly attributed to Christianity aren't based on the teachings of Jesus at all.

The ten commandments, going to hell for sinning, the purgatory, shunning of homosexuality and abortion, Going to church every Sunday, any Christian holiday traditions, praying for one's own gain (as opposed to the Lord's Prayer), the rejection of certain areas of biology and geology, the infallibility of the Pope (for Catholics), or even the concept that everything in the Bible must be true: All these things are not based on Jesus' teachings.

Jesus was a wandering preacher and social revolutionary, and his preachings were recorded by four or more of his friends and companions after his death. He did teach of a loving and forgiving God. I like him.

In the current definition of the word, that does not make me a Christian though.
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Sleksa
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Re: wow.

Post by Sleksa »


In the current definition of the word, that does not make me a Christian though.
so you follow christian ethics and morales, but you are not a christian in a sense that you believe that a iron hand in the sky made women from a rib of a man.
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Boirunner
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Re: wow.

Post by Boirunner »

Not really, I like Jesus but I disagree with some of the things he said. He was an idealist.

I like other people too. Martin Luther King, Mohandas Ghandi, Nelson Mandela and Tenzin Gyatso, for example. That doesn't make me a Whatever-ian, I just like the people and what they said and did.

The only moral framework that makes sense to me is the categorical imperative, combined with goodwill for one another.
manored
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Re: wow.

Post by manored »

With time people changed the shape of original christianism... thats why God wanted the bible to be writen, but aparently people started to ignore the bible and changed stuff wrongly anyway.
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Felix the Cat
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Re: wow.

Post by Felix the Cat »

Sleksa wrote:

In the current definition of the word, that does not make me a Christian though.
so you follow christian ethics and morales, but you are not a christian in a sense that you believe that a iron hand in the sky made women from a rib of a man.
Christianity has precisely one ethic: repent for your sins sometime before you die, and you go to heaven.

That's why I don't really like it.
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nemppu
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Re: wow.

Post by nemppu »

Felix the Cat wrote:Christianity has precisely one ethic: repent for your sins sometime before you die, and you go to heaven.
mate....no.... just no... how can you say that shit?
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Boirunner
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Re: wow.

Post by Boirunner »

It's actually a valid interpretation. Jesus died for our sins, so if you believe in Jesus (and are lucky enough to die after he did), you can go to heaven. A priest can absolve you of any sins you committed, that's what Confession is for.

It's why we anoint the sick. If this is done, the dying person will be forgiven his sins and go to heaven:

Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. (James 5:14-15)

A murderer that confesses, regrets and repents his sins will go to heaven, while an atheist or Buddhist who has lived his life as sin-free as possible (but does not believe in Jesus) will be tortured for all eternity.

What happens if the murderer does not regret his sins is somewhat disputed, but most Christians believe that God will forgive him his sins if he is a faithful believer.

Of course this depends very much on which Christian Church you ask, for example a Pope stated once that if you had never heard of Jesus it was not your fault for not believing in him, so you could still go to heaven if you were good. If you have heard of him but don't believe in him, you're pretty much fucked though.


edit: The common "RPG" belief system (Good deeds = plus points, bad deeds and sins = minus points; if the total is larger than 0 when you die you go to heaven) actually has no basis in the Christian Faith. The entire point of Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins, to enable us to go to heaven despite being sinners. You can't get into heaven without belief in Jesus though:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. (John 14:6)
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Guessmyname
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Re: wow.

Post by Guessmyname »

Boirunner wrote:You can't get into heaven without belief in Jesus though
Is true. There's a circle of hell for 'virtuous non-believers', which is apparently 'quiet, but peaceful'. Can't remember what it's called mind...
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Felix the Cat
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Re: wow.

Post by Felix the Cat »

Guessmyname wrote:
Boirunner wrote:You can't get into heaven without belief in Jesus though
Is true. There's a circle of hell for 'virtuous non-believers', which is apparently 'quiet, but peaceful'. Can't remember what it's called mind...
Depends on how Catholic you are, I suppose.
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Boirunner
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Re: wow.

Post by Boirunner »

You are thinking of Limbo as defined in Dante's Divine Comedy, which is a piece of literature and not canonical.

The Limbo defined by the Catholic Church only is for unbaptised children to young to have committed sin, and those who died before Jesus did (and thus could not go to heaven due to their original sin).

By the way, this is one of the reasons why abortion is so horrible for Christians: An unborn child has original sin (because it split off from god at some point), but has no possibility of getting baptised, thus condemning it to Limbo for all eternity, damned and separated from God.
tombom
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Re: wow.

Post by tombom »

note that all this stuff is dependent on which branch of Christianity you follow; there are a lot of different interpretations of the bible
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Sleksa
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Re: wow.

Post by Sleksa »

Christianity has precisely one ethic: repent for your sins sometime before you die, and you go to heaven.

That's why I don't really like it.
i think you should get some 9mm aspirine and stop making posts like this.


Western laws are based on christian ethics, and if the christian ethics would be composed of only repenting for your sins we wouldnt have any authority powers like police or judges, instead rapists would "repent" and be pardoned.
edit: The common "RPG" belief system (Good deeds = plus points, bad deeds and sins = minus points; if the total is larger than 0 when you die you go to heaven) actually has no basis in the Christian Faith. The entire point of Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins, to enable us to go to heaven despite being sinners. You can't get into heaven without belief in Jesus though:
There are several branches of christianity, like catholic church, orthodoxes, and protestants, like evangelic lutherians. Theres also mormons and jehova witnesses.

Each one of them has a different view on heaven, how to get there, what is hell, etc.

But the ethical guidelines are largely the same. Killing is a sin, people should be modest and try to not hoard shit for themselves and instead share for those in need. This doesnt vary between the christian branches.

What comes to the bible, it should be regarded as a nice book with lots of action and war and women and entertaiment, but nothing more.

if you start to interpret the by a book written several millenia ago that has no idea about how current world works, youre a dumb fuck and as intelligent as a muslim extermist blowing himself up in afganistan.
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Boirunner
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Re: wow.

Post by Boirunner »

Sleksa wrote: Western laws are based on christian ethics, and if the christian ethics would be composed of only repenting for your sins we wouldnt have any authority powers like police or judges, instead rapists would "repent" and be pardoned.
I disagree. What you call Christian ethics are just the moral standards that have kept society as we know it possible through the millennia. Pretty much all other, non-Christian, societies came up with the same rules, albeit legitimated somewhat differently.
There are several branches of christianity, like catholic church, orthodoxes, and protestants, like evangelic lutherians. Theres also mormons and jehova witnesses.

Each one of them has a different view on heaven, how to get there, what is hell, etc.
Yes, but as fare as I know, none of them really claim that Jesus isn't the only way to heaven (see the above quote).

But the ethical guidelines are largely the same. Killing is a sin, people should be modest and try to not hoard shit for themselves and instead share for those in need. This doesnt vary between the christian branches.
Well that doesn't really vary between any of the major world religions.
What comes to the bible, it should be regarded as a nice book with lots of action and war and women and entertaiment, but nothing more.

if you start to interpret the by a book written several millenia ago that has no idea about how current world works, youre a dumb fuck and as intelligent as a muslim extermist blowing himself up in afganistan.
Well what should a Christian listen to then? The Bible is all we have to go on.
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Sleksa
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Re: wow.

Post by Sleksa »

I disagree. What you call Christian ethics are just the moral standards that have kept society as we know it possible through the millennia. Pretty much all other, non-Christian, societies came up with the same rules, albeit legitimated somewhat differently.
That is the precise point. The christian ethics are moral standards that create a base framework for a society to be built on. Theyre not guidelines given to us by some higher being, but a natural process for humans.
Yes, but as far as I know, none of them really claim that Jesus isn't the only way to heaven (see the above quote).
No but it shows that there are multiple ways to interpret texts and meanings from the bible and the teaching of the jesus, its not self explanatory, and on top of that many texts contradict with eachother. So what is making this version of heaven as we know it any better than dante's purgatorium?



Bible on the other hand contradicts with itself a lot, and there are many ways to interpret heaven, And you need to remember that the bible wasnt written by one man during a certain century. The views have changed for almost as long as there has been a concept of a heaven by jesus.

Dante, on the other hand, is on a stronger basis since he's been into heaven(paradiso) and hell(purgatorium) so we have clear factual information about it. ;)

Boirunner wrote:
Well what should a Christian listen to then? The Bible is all we have to go on.
his/her own sense

There are times when you are confronted with a question you find hard to get a clear answer to, for example abortion, so reading what other religions/bible/ studies tell you is acceptable.

But taking EVERYTHING FROM THE BIBLE AND NOTHING ELSE, is the thing im telling you to avoid.
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MightySheep
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Re: wow.

Post by MightySheep »

Lisa Morris was walking to class with her boyfriend last October when something happened. At first Ms. Morris, a sophomore music major, is reluctant to divulge the details. Eventually, however, the truth comes out: He patted her behind.

Someone who witnessed the incident reported Ms. Morris and her boyfriend. At Pensacola any physical contact between members of the opposite sex is forbidden. (Members of the same sex may touch, although the college condemns homosexuality.) The forbidden contact includes shaking hands and definitely includes patting behinds. Both students were expelled.
haha how lame
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Machiosabre
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Re: wow.

Post by Machiosabre »

so how much prestige is left when you have to be a well behaved spaz to graduate?
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I2:Isaacment_Day
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Re: wow.

Post by I2:Isaacment_Day »

i think alot of the old testament was constructed from various folk stories passed down, for example the story of the great flood is in pretty much every ancient society.

Even more bizzare the story of the tower of babel was pretty prolific around the middle east and supposedly even in central America.





Also i think when people say they believe in basic Christian ethics but not Christianity, its because 'basic Christian ethics' are really just 'human ethics' that benefit everyone in practice and therefore are passed down.

people would have worked 'do unto others' out a long time before Christianity
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