License clarification for "standard" lua code

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 05 Sep 2007, 10:15

jK wrote:why the hell, are guys such selfish? A lot of ppl spend hundreds of hours into the spring engine code and you don't want to make your <12h content public (or only limited) available?
I don't want to ask each time the author, if I can use his model or if I want to modify the texture a bit etc.
Not to forget, how much code you used/read to write/make 'your' gadget/content.
And it isn't that you want to earn money with your work, you only don't want to that other ppl use 'your' work as they want. Imo this is greedy ...

So you support the position that the GPL infects the whole mod but then go around proclaining that we should just surrender all rights to decide what we can do with our mods? I wouldn't mind if it was just the lua stuff, that can be used in any freaking way you want (IMO code this simple is not a creative work because there's only a limited number of approaches which can lead to the goal) but I'd highly object to being forced to release creative works under the GPL because some stupid helper script was GPL. I don't want to surrender my right to tell people making shitty 3rd rate unit mash mods to fuck off and leave my units alone unless I explicitely decide to do so (e.g. Kernel Panic, I don't care). I also want to reserve the right to release my work into the public domain or under a BSD license, all of which I lose if I let any GPL code into my work.

Additionally I cannot grant a specific mod a right to use my work if that mod uses the GPL and I don't want to give a permission to everyone.

Furthermore, I think using anything that you don't hold the copyright to (Gundam, TA) automatically prevents you from GPLing your mod because you cannot attach a license to that IP.

In order to avoid this I can just avoid including things like the gadget handler into my mod, I could just write everything straight into main.lua and not use modules. It will be the same for me, after all I don't need modules when my code is meant for my mod anyway but if I were to allow others to use that lua code they wouldn't have modules and would have to manually separate the features they need, making the code much less reusable.

All of this would have been resolved by using a license designed to be put on modules, i.e. the LGPL.

Tobi · Post by **Tobi** » 05 Sep 2007, 11:12

Plz guys, remember that argumentative discussion > swearing & insulting of other users.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 05 Sep 2007, 11:47

I agree. We've already had quite enough of that, with the previous discussions of this issue. More won't improve things. Everybody comes to these issues with different concerns. We need solutions, not shouting.

BrainDamage · Post by **BrainDamage** » 05 Sep 2007, 12:26

since lot of people seems to heart this issues, can't anybody submit this issue to the free software fundation and ask their response?

according to their contact page:

licensing@fsf.org for questions about the GPL and free software licensing

so you'd have a 3rd party legal support to definitively end this issue

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 05 Sep 2007, 12:33

I just wanted to jump on the bandwagon

;o)

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 05 Sep 2007, 14:24

Tobi wrote:Plz guys, remember that argumentative discussion > swearing & insulting of other users.

In some cases I don't care. I have to deal with morons like jk every so often and frankly I have no patience left for his bullpoop. How would you feel in my situation?

*edit* Oh and I get a fellony.. well I wear that one PROUDLY! He deserved every word of it and I am tempted to re add it. I am tired of these jerks treating me like this!

*edits again* but jk gets to slide for that... funny. not even a slap on the wrist yet I am the badguy here! What the heck, This is not even fair. I am sick I have to deal with this while I currently working on something I am going to be giving away to this community and the moderation staff feels that I am the bad guy. Why do I even do anything outside of my main project!?!

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 05 Sep 2007, 15:03

jK wrote: A lot of ppl spend hundreds of hours into the spring engine code and you don't want to make your <12h content public (or only limited) available?
I don't want to ask each time the author, if I can use his model or if I want to modify the texture a bit etc.
Not to forget, how much code you used/read to write/make 'your' gadget/content.
And it isn't that you want to earn money with your work, you only don't want to that other ppl use 'your' work as they want. Imo this is greedy ...

ahahahahah.

go get a job and then send the salary on my bank account mmkay? its not like you'd use it on anything youd need anyway, so its best to give it to me.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 05 Sep 2007, 15:08

jK wrote:or deactivate it in .springrc/win-reg, with same consequences.

and:
this forum is the wrong place for such discussions imo

why the hell,(that is profanity) are guys such selfish? A lot of ppl spend hundreds of hours into the spring engine code and you don't want to make your <12h content

your <12h content

your <12h content

your <12h content

public (or only limited) available?
I don't want to ask each time the author, if I can use his model or if I want to modify the texture a bit etc.(translation I should be able to steal what I want from you)

Not to forget, how much code you used(no I wrote gundam from scratch)/read to write/make 'your' gadget/content.
And it isn't that you want to earn money with your work, you only don't want to that other ppl use 'your' work as they want(we can steal it all we want becuase you do not GIVE ENOUGH TO US!).

Imo this is greedy ...

yet I am the bad guy... all I wanted to know was about the gpl licenses... and he comes in here with that nonsense. I am beyond furious..... yet after all I have and still am giving to this place I have to endure these things!?!?!

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 05 Sep 2007, 15:09

Seriously, I want an answer for this!

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 05 Sep 2007, 15:12

In case this thread is tl;dr for anyone:
MAEK GADGET LGPL

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 05 Sep 2007, 15:49

jK wrote:or deactivate it in .springrc/win-reg, with same consequences.

and:
this forum is the wrong place for such discussions imo

why the hell, are guys such selfish? A lot of ppl spend hundreds of hours into the spring engine code and you don't want to make your <12h content public (or only limited) available?
I don't want to ask each time the author, if I can use his model or if I want to modify the texture a bit etc.
Not to forget, how much code you used/read to write/make 'your' gadget/content.
And it isn't that you want to earn money with your work, you only don't want to that other ppl use 'your' work as they want. Imo this is greedy ...

why dont you go spend 12 hours making something and then i'll take it and say its mine

if you get mad its just you being selfish rite

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 05 Sep 2007, 16:03

Still, it's not because you have GLP lua code that all your mod have to be GPL ...
The model can still have a different license.
There is a lot of GPL engine where the data is not GPL ( Quake2, Quake 3.. )

Sorry If I'm out of context.

Lippy · Post by **Lippy** » 05 Sep 2007, 16:13

Lol, why is it that GPL discussion always ends bad...

GPL has a curse!

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 05 Sep 2007, 16:18

GPL was a reason for holy flame wars even when the Internet was called Arpanet... nothing new here.

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 05 Sep 2007, 16:18

people want credit for the work they have done

that is what drives people to make content

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 05 Sep 2007, 16:18

Torrasque, with an engine it's clear that the content is not derived from the engine but with code that has to be copied into the mod folder it's not as clear because the whole mod could be counted as one work and the GPL script that was copied into it will make the whole a derivative.

Tim-the-maniac · Post by **Tim-the-maniac** » 05 Sep 2007, 16:25

smoth wrote:Seriously, I want an answer for this!

After seeing that rant over something so small i'd say you need to take things alot less seriously

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 05 Sep 2007, 16:27

Problem is this isn't small. The code that's GPLed is small but the effect it has on your mod is potentially huge.

Tim-the-maniac · Post by **Tim-the-maniac** » 05 Sep 2007, 16:32

I meant jk comments of <12 hour stuff and smoths insults and general internet rage because of such comments

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 05 Sep 2007, 17:03

Look, I agree with smoth and everyone else here that flamed JK (I personally have nothing against you dude, seems like you made a comment in the heat of the moment without realizing what you were implying).

I really wish that everyone would leave engine things licensed the way they are, and have everything mod (Including Lua Widgets/Gadgets) side be under Creative commons (CC can be made to be as loose or as strict as you want it to be, it's very flexible).

Look I use only smoth's work because I know I can trust the source. I also credit him wherever possible (and even then I doubt I do a very good job of it:( ).

Personally I am terrified of using anything Argh does or did because he uses GPL on everything. He nearly destroyed E&E (actually, in a way he did, really) Because E&E used some of his GPL script, which then smoth spent all night helping fang completely rewrite everything.

From watching what goes on here, honestly I think everything mod (Including Lua Widgets/Gadgets) side should be in the form of a CC license because they are easy to understand. Reading the GPL and actually making sense of it is like reading some of the old spagetti code in spring. It's frustrating, annoying, and at some point will make you simply throw your hands in the air in dispair. As I stated before, CC can be as loose or as restrictive as needed is is more than adequate for licensing in spring mods.

Spring RTS Engine

License clarification for "standard" lua code