Spring has less players

[Google_Frog]

Just pointing out flexibility is not a problem with the engine, it's a good thing. Autohosts can disable midgame rejoin so if you really think it detracts from certain games it can be disabled.

[muckl]

as long as there other autohosts with 16+ players i will NOT change everything on my autohost
i did it in the past and the users wanted 16+ games and there joined other autohosts with 16+ setting - so there is NO GO for me as long as there isnt a global rule for all owners

[[LOeT]Zinn]

From watching such discussions for some years now I finally came to the well thought conclusion: In fact it is SpeedMetal that is killing Spring. For the last few years all you saw where the collapsing ruins which SpeedMetal left behind. But now I noticed that there is a new old enemy back. Even worse and more powerful.

I think

persuade autohost owners to bend to your will

won't be enough. You should think about spamming them. Kill their connections. Flood their IPs. Get their private addresses and send them all-black faxes with small white text "Stop killing Spring!". Drop poop on their doorsteps. Shoot their windows. Call the police on them for child pornography or murder. Get their job address. Do the same there. All that because

Any further discussion of them is a waste of time.

So I say: Kill them before they finish killing spring!!!1 In the war against autohosts you are either with us or against us!!1

right now it's a persuasion/cultural task

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

[momfreeek]

i did it in the past and the users wanted 16+ games and there joined other autohosts with 16+ setting

so... no-one even needs your autohost

so there is NO GO for me as long as there isnt a global rule for all owners

Yeh, doesn't bode well.

[muckl]

"so... no-one even needs your autohost"

no its full every day cause it rulezzzzz !!!!111einseinseinself

[AF]

I'm back, have there been any recent advances?

*searches for recent advances*

right now it's a persuasion/cultural task

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

o_0 I'm now the peoples leader? erm yay

[marciolino]

If you want to fix things, right now it's a persuasion/cultural task, not a technical task.

First of all I dont know THE solution, but since something must change I started talking to autohost owners.

Autohost owners do not believe they are at fault or doing anything wrong

Definitely true, in fact I had the feeling that some autohost owners are just trying to keep their hosts popular/full and sexy.
[*] What is the point about having a popular autohost if you dont care about the community?
[*] I really dont get it, does it make you feel better?
Anyway, yesterday I had the following discussion:

[20:00:03] <[FLM]Zorro> hi
[20:00:30] <[LOeT]Paste> ?
[20:01:13] <[FLM]Zorro> I would like just to ask u if TERA hosts are ur responsability?
[20:01:21] <[FLM]Zorro> just to know
[20:01:29] <[LOeT]Paste> they are mine yes
[20:01:54] <[FLM]Zorro> cause there is a huge discussion about BA players
[20:01:57] <[FLM]Zorro> on the forum
[20:02:10] <[LOeT]Paste> its always a discussion about ba and dsd and other fock
[20:02:14] <[FLM]Zorro> and I think u should participate if u dont mind ofc
[20:02:26] <[FLM]Zorro> no not DSD
[20:02:44] <[FLM]Zorro> it is just a question of BA decreasing number of players
[20:02:55] <[LOeT]Paste> lol
[20:03:08] <[FLM]Zorro> ?
[20:03:09] <[LOeT]Paste> this thread is started all month again
[20:03:14] <[LOeT]Paste> so what
[20:03:18] <[FLM]Zorro> why lol?
[20:03:28] <[FLM]Zorro> dont u mind of it?
[20:03:28] <[LOeT]Paste> cause its kiddy stuff
[20:03:42] <[FLM]Zorro> why it is kiddy stuff?
[20:04:06] <[LOeT]Paste> im not in this discuss
[20:04:22] <[FLM]Zorro> but why it is kiddy stuff?
[20:04:31] <[FLM]Zorro> cause u are not in the discussion?
[20:04:37] <[FLM]Zorro> i dont get it
[20:05:20] <[LOeT]Paste> why talk about less players when nobody knows why
[20:05:24] <[FLM]Zorro> do u really think about the consequences of your autohosts?
[20:05:28] <[LOeT]Paste> everyone has his own reasons
[20:05:31] <[FLM]Zorro> I dont know why
[20:05:37] <[FLM]Zorro> nobody knows
[20:05:40] <[LOeT]Paste> so
[20:05:47] <[LOeT]Paste> i will not change anything on my hosts
[20:05:52] <[FLM]Zorro> but we can ask ourselfs
[20:06:07] <[LOeT]Paste> cause if i do something - other host will grow
[20:06:10] <[LOeT]Paste> i did it once
[20:06:12] <[FLM]Zorro> I am not asking to change something know
[20:06:12] <[LOeT]Paste> and failed
[20:06:19] <[FLM]Zorro> just want to discuss
[20:06:23] <[FLM]Zorro> and undestand
[20:06:24] <[LOeT]Paste> i dont want to discuss
[20:06:37] <[LOeT]Paste> have other things to do srry
[20:06:48] <[FLM]Zorro> but what is your point? get your host famous?
[20:07:28] <[FLM]Zorro> so if you have other things to do why are you hosting battles?
[20:07:36] <[FLM]Zorro> whitout knowing the consequences?
[20:07:42] <[FLM]Zorro> really
[20:07:49] <[FLM]Zorro> it is an important question
[20:08:58] <[LOeT]Paste> what do u want from me
[20:09:08] <[FLM]Zorro> just want to discuss
[20:09:13] <[LOeT]Paste> ok again
[20:09:15] <[FLM]Zorro> and understand the problem
[20:09:20] <[LOeT]Paste> i have to code stuff atm
[20:09:26] <[FLM]Zorro> I love DSD
[20:09:29] <[FLM]Zorro> realyy
[20:09:51] <[FLM]Zorro> but I would like to understand why BA players is decreasing
[20:10:02] <[FLM]Zorro> and if it is related to autohosts
[20:10:04] <[FLM]Zorro> just it
[20:10:41] <[LOeT]Paste> but I would like to understand why BA players is decreasing <- i dont know it
[20:10:43] <[FLM]Zorro> I am not against you or other ppl, really
[20:11:16] <[LOeT]Paste> i say its a problem of the community
[20:11:19] <[FLM]Zorro> ok you dont know but you have autohosts which are full
[20:11:23] <[LOeT]Paste> rude players
[20:11:29] <[FLM]Zorro> so it is important to you to understand
[20:11:34] <[LOeT]Paste> "pros" who kick noobs
[20:11:55] <[FLM]Zorro> and to know if you are conscient of your responsability
[20:12:14] <[LOeT]Paste> let me gogole the words
[20:12:17] <[LOeT]Paste> im not english pro
[20:12:31] <[FLM]Zorro> yep I agree pros kicking noobs is a real problem
[20:12:59] <[FLM]Zorro> but you are an important guy, cause you have an popular autohost
[20:13:06] <[LOeT]Paste> im not important
[20:13:13] <[FLM]Zorro> so it is why I am questionning you
[20:13:20] <[FLM]Zorro> yes u are really important
[20:13:29] <[FLM]Zorro> you can change lot of things
[20:13:34] <[LOeT]Paste> i only change anything on the autohost when there is a REAL problem
[20:13:34] <[FLM]Zorro> or not change
[20:13:46] <[FLM]Zorro> but at most quation if it is important or not
[20:13:49] <[LOeT]Paste> so when someone says it COULD BE caused by bla - i wont change anything
[20:14:13] <[FLM]Zorro> yep but it was said
[20:14:21] <[FLM]Zorro> it really is discussed
[20:14:27] <[LOeT]Paste> what
[20:14:30] <[LOeT]Paste> is the fact so?
[20:14:34] <[FLM]Zorro> if you follow a bit the discussion on the forum
[20:14:37] <[FLM]Zorro> you will see
[20:14:48] <[FLM]Zorro> the fact is
[20:14:50] <[LOeT]Paste> holy shit that are 10 pages
[20:14:58] <[LOeT]Paste> and everyone has his own reasons
[20:15:11] <[FLM]Zorro> (I am not sur if it is true but anyway the problem exists)
[20:15:35] <[LOeT]Paste> so u say the problem is autohost administration ?
[20:15:43] <[LOeT]Paste> cause u come to me
[20:15:45] <[FLM]Zorro> maybe
[20:15:48] <[FLM]Zorro> I am not sure
[20:15:49] <[LOeT]Paste> so what do u think
[20:15:53] <[LOeT]Paste> what goes wrong
[20:15:57] <[FLM]Zorro> but I would like to discuss
[20:16:02] <[LOeT]Paste> say your point
[20:16:11] <[FLM]Zorro> I thinnk we should do somthing
[20:16:18] <[LOeT]Paste> WHAT
[20:16:21] <[FLM]Zorro> at least do something to change
[20:16:32] <[FLM]Zorro> like try different solutions
[20:16:53] <[FLM]Zorro> I dont know the best one but I know the actual IS NOT the best one
[20:16:56] <[FLM]Zorro> so why not change
[20:16:57] <[FLM]Zorro> ?
[20:17:14] <[FLM]Zorro> you see my point?
[20:17:23] <[LOeT]Paste> no i see just "change"
[20:17:25] <[LOeT]Paste> but WHAT?
[20:17:53] <[FLM]Zorro> 8v8 upto 14v14 autohost can be a problem, I am not saying it is but YES it can be
[20:17:57] <[FLM]Zorro> so
[20:18:31] <[FLM]Zorro> as you have the control of these popular autohost you can also change and limit the number of players
[20:18:39] <[FLM]Zorro> and limit the number of spectators
[20:18:49] <[LOeT]Paste> no
[20:18:56] <[FLM]Zorro> no what?
[20:18:59] <[LOeT]Paste> cause they go on glados oder some other server then
[20:19:07] <[LOeT]Paste> that was the biggest FAIL i ever did!
[20:19:12] <[LOeT]Paste> i tried it already
[20:19:23] <[FLM]Zorro> if they go to glados it will be glados responsability
[20:19:31] <[FLM]Zorro> this is not the question
[20:19:34] <[FLM]Zorro> the question is
[20:19:36] <[LOeT]Paste> it is the problem!
[20:19:44] <[LOeT]Paste> i want my autohosts full
[20:19:49] <[LOeT]Paste> so this is not the way to go for me
[20:19:50] <[LOeT]Paste> end
[20:20:01] <[FLM]Zorro> do you want to change something? do you want to do something to BA community?
[20:20:13] <[LOeT]Paste> yes
[20:20:17] <[FLM]Zorro> why you want your hosts full???
[20:20:32] <[FLM]Zorro> I dont get your point
[20:20:42] <[LOeT]Paste> cause empty servers are not good ?!
[20:20:58] <[LOeT]Paste> empty server 7d/week = useless
[20:21:08] <[LOeT]Paste> so i can switch off
[20:21:39] <[LOeT]Paste> and all players are going to another autohost with 8x8 or more teamsize
[20:21:44] <[LOeT]Paste> u dont get the point
[20:21:48] <[LOeT]Paste> players want big games
[20:21:56] <[FLM]Zorro> no I get the point
[20:22:07] <[FLM]Zorro> players want to play and have fun
[20:22:21] <[LOeT]Paste> ok i see u dont have the insight about this theme
[20:22:23] <[FLM]Zorro> 14v14 games is really boring for new players
[20:22:27] <[FLM]Zorro> the are insulted
[20:22:29] <[FLM]Zorro> and blammed
[20:22:38] <[LOeT]Paste> play a bit on dsdhost1 and see what happens all day..
[20:22:47] <[LOeT]Paste> they would increase the teamsize
[20:22:51] <[LOeT]Paste> but i hardlimited it
[20:22:53] <[FLM]Zorro> so I think this can be a reason to the "decreasing of the number of player"
[20:23:04] <[FLM]Zorro> I play
[20:23:05] <[LOeT]Paste> CAN BE yes
[20:23:10] <[LOeT]Paste> CAN BE other things too
[20:23:15] <[FLM]Zorro> I know
[20:23:16] <[LOeT]Paste> CAN BE assholes on server
[20:23:21] <[LOeT]Paste> CAN BE shitty GUI
[20:23:25] <[FLM]Zorro> it is why I am open to discuss
[20:23:33] <[LOeT]Paste> CAN BE commertial products sucking up players
[20:23:48] <[LOeT]Paste> CAN BE shitty installation routine what fails every time on some pcs
[20:24:04] <[LOeT]Paste> CAN BE sync errors caused of problems
[20:24:19] <[LOeT]Paste> CAN BE CAN BE CAN BE
[20:24:59] <[LOeT]Paste> my friend had ALWAYS a problem with spring installation
[20:25:03] <[FLM]Zorro> so you just dont care
[20:25:06] <[LOeT]Paste> now its in RECYCLER
[20:25:15] <[LOeT]Paste> he is really AFRAID of spring
[20:25:20] <[LOeT]Paste> he NEVER will play spring again!
[20:25:22] <[FLM]Zorro> I know
[20:25:28] <[LOeT]Paste> so thats a REAL point
[20:25:31] <[FLM]Zorro> but I have friends that quit
[20:25:41] <[FLM]Zorro> cause they were insulted
[20:25:48] <[FLM]Zorro> and blamed in big games
[20:25:50] <[FLM]Zorro> so
[20:26:01] <[LOeT]Paste> go to the developers and say they should make a real game out of this developer testing version thingy
[20:26:17] <[LOeT]Paste> so is it the autohost what blames?
[20:26:20] <[LOeT]Paste> or the players?
[20:26:27] <[FLM]Zorro> the players
[20:26:29] <[FLM]Zorro> ofc
[20:26:29] <[LOeT]Paste> so
[20:26:30] <[FLM]Zorro> but
[20:26:33] <[FLM]Zorro> the question I asked myself
[20:26:36] <[LOeT]Paste> dont come again to me and speak about settings
[20:26:45] <[FLM]Zorro> it happens mostly on big games
[20:26:48] <[FLM]Zorro> not in 2v2
[20:26:50] <[FLM]Zorro> or 3v3
[20:26:54] <[LOeT]Paste> ya cause there are many more players - LOL
[20:26:54] <[FLM]Zorro> really
[20:27:02] <[FLM]Zorro> I have playing a lot 2v2 3v3
[20:27:08] <[FLM]Zorro> ofc
[20:27:15] <[LOeT]Paste> ppls need to calm down
[20:27:19] <[LOeT]Paste> ppls need to play nicely
[20:27:20] <[FLM]Zorro> cause they are more player
[20:27:28] <[LOeT]Paste> ppls need to get kicked when they fuck around
[20:27:32] <[FLM]Zorro> agree with you
[20:27:36] <[LOeT]Paste> if not - noobs get annoyed
[20:27:41] <[LOeT]Paste> and bb
[20:27:46] <[FLM]Zorro> but if there is something we can do
[20:27:50] <[FLM]Zorro> we must do it
[20:27:57] <[FLM]Zorro> I am just saying this
[20:28:01] <[LOeT]Paste> ya administrate your server carefully
[20:28:11] <[FLM]Zorro> I know
[20:28:13] <[LOeT]Paste> its not the teamsize - its the players who bring in the shit
[20:28:19] <[FLM]Zorro> but you are not there all the time
[20:28:20] <[FLM]Zorro> you cant
[20:28:27] <[FLM]Zorro> you already saud
[20:28:28] <[LOeT]Paste> oh i have many admins in the access list
[20:28:29] <[FLM]Zorro> said
[20:28:34] <[LOeT]Paste> mostly there is someone online
[20:28:38] <[FLM]Zorro> you have things to do
[20:28:39] <[LOeT]Paste> it works well
[20:28:50] <[FLM]Zorro> I can tell you dont
[20:28:56] <[LOeT]Paste> oh u can pay me for being here ofc
[20:28:59] <[FLM]Zorro> many times it goes wrong
[20:29:11] <[FLM]Zorro> no I am not asking you that
[20:29:21] <[FLM]Zorro> I know you have important things to do
[20:29:31] <[FLM]Zorro> this is the point
[20:30:20] <[LOeT]Paste> ??
[20:30:24] <[LOeT]Paste> are u crazy?
[20:36:54] <[FLM]Zorro> no
[20:37:04] <[FLM]Zorro> why you are asking me that

So resuming:

- He dont think he is responsable for anything
- He just want his autohost full and dont want to loose players to Glados/other server
- He doesn't care if it change something for the community
- He think ppl play 14v14 only because cause they like it (ok maybe they like it but maybe it is not the only reason, it is easier to join/play)
- He think there is always someone managing his autohost and that trolling and noob-insulting doesnt happens
- He think this forum discussion is kiddy stuff
- He wont change

[smoth]

I think you took his weak english as a chance to get the most negative interpretation of his personality.

[AF]

I think that the horde of perpetually empty autohosts is more damaging right now to new players. The hugely popular TERA host is a problem, but it's not the biggest evil.

Anyways, until you can solve the problem of his autohost becoming deserted when he makes these changes, I suggest you focus elsewhere. e.g. on the empty autohosts that become insanely popular when he makes changes, but lay dormant otherwise

[knorke]

<[LOeT]Paste> this thread is started all month again

and we love every single one of them.
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26762
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26747
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26175
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25837
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25957
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=25958
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24474
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24775
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23855
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23219
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23013
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22497
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24614
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24794
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=23836
---------------
result: over 9000 forks not given.

[Niobium]

Imo this is a mod-side problem, not an autohost problem. While simultaneous cooperation between present and future autohosts on what settings to use might solve the problem, it isn't going to happen.

If it is the case that a mod plays best with a particular amount of players, and has gameplay rapidly deteriorate with additional players, then the mod should enforce a player limit itself.

While one could make the argument that there should be no hard set rules and that players should have the freedom to play in whatever size game they wish, I don't think this ideal is compatible with the current spring/autohost environment (Insufficient players for multiple open games, ease of raising teamsize, and high maximum player count all make establishing the smaller sized games difficult, regardless of what people might want).

[zerver]

I don't want games split like that where I can't decide who I play with.

It's been said a 1000 times before but this 'preference' also kills Spring. People who want to play together, whether it be in a clan or not, is not good for the balance, and it scares away noobs.

That clans in many cases provide the actual autohosts makes things even worse, since admin rights opens up further possibilities to screw the balance. Rebalance-until-it-looks-good-in-my-biased-opinion.

Clans are of course great in a larger community when there are other clans to play against.

[dansan]

IMO not so unusual OSS problem. Can sometimes be solved by having a Benevolent Dictator (for Life).

[AF]

I don't want to be restricted, if I want to play in a way that destroys the community shortly after I leave from boredom, then thats my decision

[Licho]

http://code.google.com/p/zero-k/wiki/MatchMaking

[MidKnight]

http://code.google.com/p/zero-k/wiki/MatchMaking

*clapclapclap*

[muckl]

@marciolino

at least u had could asked for a permission to show our private log here
its not the fine way and an personal interpretation of my words is doubleworse!

but in the other case im fine with it - cause i stay to my words and i fuck on your meanings about this topic cause its just another shit for lonely fat homeboys with no girlfriends playing spring and have to much time to hang out in forums and troll and discuss around over things they cant get and change.

and yes.. im paying money for this dedicated server
cause i like spring and want to contribute
but not those forum trolls like u guys here.

[smoth]

" this topic cause its just another shit for lonely fat homeboys with no girlfriends playing spring and have to much time to hang out in forums and troll and discuss around over things they cant get and change."

sup homeboy... how about you drop the internet tough guy bs and act like a civil human being.

[se5a]

sounds good Licho
kudos for actualy doing something rather than just arguing.

Now we just need people to start coding...

[muckl]

" this topic cause its just another shit for lonely fat homeboys with no girlfriends playing spring and have to much time to hang out in forums and troll and discuss around over things they cant get and change."

sup homeboy... how about you drop the internet tough guy bs and act like a civil human being.

holy shit u really need some slaps