Balanced Annihilation V6.6

[Gota]

Pro Tip: if a mod gives fighters special damage reductions vs land targets, they are very unlikely to be interested in implementing hawk dancing.

Actually the special damages are versus air..The defaul damage is used vs land...

[BaNa]

It would make more sense to just have fighters unable to attack ground units rather than shoot at them and do tiny damage - then you wouldn't have the trouble of fighters chasing after some mobile AA etc.

Yeah that is annoying when they fuck around and dont kill the bombers heading towards your base.

[Gota]

that can be avoided.

[el_matarife]

why? ta runs on nano machines, it would be easier to explain that the commander's shield was zapped from the teleport in.

I think it would be more fun as a gameplay mechanic, I don't really care about storyline rationalizations. The commander upgrade system in SupCom is pretty neat, and could solve a lot of late game issues with the commander in BA.

[Gota]

ITs neat only if you have models of the commander that look like the old model but with new modules or parts added,And don't expect that to be in BA.

[Sleksa]

I think it would be more fun as a gameplay mechanic, I don't really care about storyline rationalizations. The commander upgrade system in SupCom is pretty neat, and could solve a lot of late game issues with the commander in BA.

The combat also pretty much revolves around the commander, because of the upgrades it can get, which is one of the reasons why i dislike supcom's gameplay compared to TA

[Gota]

That and the completely different handling of units...

[[Krogoth86]]

The combat also pretty much revolves around the commander, because of the upgrades it can get, which is one of the reasons why i dislike supcom's gameplay compared to TA

I disagree - it's true that the ACU in SupCom can get stronger than a Commander in BA but imo in the end SupCom doesn't really play different in terms of the ACU role. It still dies to pretty much everything very fast and as its "D-Gun" is sorta nerfed (just one target, doesn't kill things like Experimentals in one shot, rather high reload rate) it gets plain weak against anything higher than T1 (especially as unit crowds are standard in Supcom). Things like the shield upgrades in fact were the only thing that kept your ACU alive in the first SupCom releases...

Its importance for your enemies soon was degraded though as its nuke-like explosion was exchanged by a weak "boom boom" explosion with nice visuals but rather low damage potential making the Commander a way less interesting target. So unless playing a Comend style match I wouldn't say that there is too much difference between the SupCom and BA commander just because in Supcom there are upgrades...

[Gota]

BA commander is pathetic compared to the OTA com

[MR.D]

In sup-Com the commander also can't be killed in the first 5 mins by a rush of 5 lightest vehicles in the game.

The BA commander is a wuss compared to both SupCom and OTA commanders, both in armor and firepower.

[Gota]

an abomination.

[[Krogoth86]]

In sup-Com the commander also can't be killed in the first 5 mins by a rush of 5 lightest vehicles in the game.

If you don't have like three solars and more up after five minutes and are not disabled to stop whatever drains your energy D-Gunning even five Stumpies shouldn't be impossible and five Stumpies have a way higher strength than five of the mass swarming SupCom units you have crawling around in masses...

Well allright - you are correct that it is possible to kill a Commander in BA with just five T1 units but only if you let him start a pew pew laser fight and run out of energy and don't manage to stop whatever e-drains you. That's in fact not the case in Supcom where the ACU is rather decent at killing lower numbers of enemy units. On the other hand you have to admit that there on the one side are more units in terms of unit count and on the other side the maps are way more wide and large in contrast to the rather narrow and small maps with lots of hills as native walls which you rarely have in Supcom. Because of this the ACU has to have sort of a defense against at least some units because in the beginning you ACU often is not close to your base / support or front defense which imo doesn't even exist the way it does in BA (mainly just because of the map sizes where you can't safeguard a passage with just 3 turrets or something like that)...

That's why together with the said facts like a nerfed D-Gun I wouldn't say that the ACU in SupCom is stronger than a Com in BA. On the other hand it might be interesting to have an option to get either a Commander that is stronger in terms of his combat power which makes him good in the beginning but has a weak D-Gun. Needing lots of D-Gun shots to kill a Krog probably is something every Core player likes...

But nevermind ... not in BA...

[Gota]

Krog killing dguns are why chris made the new dgun weapon for SupCom..cause killing krogs with com takes no skillz.

[[Krogoth86]]

But it gave a reason as to why you cannot build Commanders ingame - because it takes so much ressources to build them with things like a Disintegrator. In SupCom I see no real reason why you can only build those "Decoy Com" Support Commanders and not the real things when looking at those multiple times stronger, more complex and larger Experimentals. When coming back to OTA this of course leads to the question why you have a Commander in that wimpsy shell and not inside something Krog-like at all...

On the other hand I'm not entirely sure anymore - you couldn't D-Gun a Krog in OTA like you could in BA could you? At least in the unpatched version of Core Contingency I think you in fact needed several shots - I'm not sure about the later patches though...

[Pressure Line]

When coming back to OTA this of course leads to the question why you have a Commander in that wimpsy shell and not inside something Krog-like at all...

Because a Galactic Gate can only transport a limited amout of mass (Quoted as "several thousand kilograms") before needing to be recharged, a process that would appear to take a long time. Thats why commanders were developed, as a self-contained army-starter that was capable of self-defense (and obviously, of low enough mass to be transporrted via galactic gate)

[smoth]

bulldozer != warmachine.

[Sleksa]

The combat also pretty much revolves around the commander, because of the upgrades it can get, which is one of the reasons why i dislike supcom's gameplay compared to TA

I disagree - it's true that the ACU in SupCom can get stronger than a Commander in BA but imo in the end SupCom doesn't really play different in terms of the ACU role. It still dies to pretty much everything very fast and as its "D-Gun" is sorta nerfed (just one target, doesn't kill things like Experimentals in one shot, rather high reload rate) it gets plain weak against anything higher than T1 (especially as unit crowds are standard in Supcom). Things like the shield upgrades in fact were the only thing that kept your ACU alive in the first SupCom releases...

The commander's normal gun had 100 damage, meaning it would take 1-3 shots to kill any t1 unit. overcharge, contrary to what you say, it still retains AoE and kills anything short of experimentals in a single shot. And it only gets stronger as the game goes on due to upgrades which give it more range, double damage, AoE, cybran spiderbot laser, etc etc etc.

I suggest you watch Matiz_pl's or anyone else's replays, who are in top 10, Or go play 1v1's, instead of playing campaign games.

Its importance for your enemies soon was degraded though as its nuke-like explosion was exchanged by a weak "boom boom" explosion with nice visuals but rather low damage potential making the Commander a way less interesting target. So unless playing a Comend style match I wouldn't say that there is too much difference between the SupCom and BA commander just because in Supcom there are upgrades...

"unless youre playing a com end?" , most of the games i've played have been comm ends, even teamgames. And the commanders have always been the first ones to be targeted, Firstly because of their immense damage output, if they are on the front, or due to their 2 building upgrades which allows them to build things like t2 PD's in several seconds instead of minutes, and their econ upgrades which make them produce something like +10/5000


The commander in BA is more interesting IMO, since it creates a set objective for the enemy. Without it (comm conts, no comm explosion, starting the game with normal cons) The game turns into a random slugfest with no major objective except the biggest guns the enemy has.

And the commander in BA is by no means weak, since it has decent buildspeed, a dgun, cloacking and capture ability.

[[Krogoth86]]

The commander's normal gun had 100 damage
[...]
And it only gets stronger as the game goes on due to upgrades which give it more range, double damage, AoE, cybran spiderbot laser, etc etc etc.

Even if the dps doubles a single Loyalist still deals about the same damage, returns missiles and EMPs on death. So I don't see the Com having an enormous combat value in lategame. The Cybran Microwave Laser is sure cool though its buttload of energy costs made it unattractive to me as you really let your pants i.e. shields down. Dunno if it was patched that shields stay on even when using all your energy for construction (if you have enough to run your shields). At the same time the Cybran doesn't have any HP upgrades - that's why I'd prefer using the ressources for getting that laser upgrade to actually build a faster and stronger Monkeylord with more weapons (although its metal costs of course are way higher than the upgrade's one) as at the point where you have what it takes to install that upgrade you also have enough energy to fire the Overcharge as fast as possible which has a higher dps output. But so many things have changed since the release version I might be wrong with this as I played FA just for fun in singleplayer...

[Sleksa]

Even if the dps doubles a single Loyalist still deals about the same damage, returns missiles and EMPs on death.

... And is worth ~3000 mass, And dies to a single overcharge

[[Krogoth86]]

The loyalists mass costs are just 480 - just looked it up...